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Post by Auf Kiltre on Feb 23, 2023 15:49:59 GMT -5
I've tried all the tricks, even added a 6th screwhole to my custom leather pickguard for the new Texas Tele build, but no joy. Tried backing out the screws a bit (haven't tried enlarging the holes, reluctant). The Texas humidity and whatever has left a lot of lift. If I push down between the screws it seems to lay flat. I think I'm committed to this pickguard so am thinking about some suitable double stricky back tape to hold the booger down. I realize this could cause some issue with the finish if I ever take it off, but whatever ugly may occur will be under the hood.
Any recommendations for a good tape to try out? Certainly the thinner the better.
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Post by Pinetree on Feb 23, 2023 16:46:54 GMT -5
I would check with a body shop. 3M makes a bunch of different double sided tape.. just be careful because some of them are permanent.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Feb 23, 2023 18:58:02 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd prefer something that works but doesn't work so well I'd never be able to take it off.
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sirWheat
Wholenote
For a better future, play Stevie Wonder for your children.
Posts: 319
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Post by sirWheat on Feb 24, 2023 6:17:17 GMT -5
I use THIS STUFF often; it's quite sticky and very thin. It comes off, but not necessarily cleanly. I wouldn't suggest using it in your situation if for no other reason than that It'll be a pain to set it in place correctly. If you're gonna do it I'd say only use small pieces at the problem areas. I was gonna suggest laying some blue tape down on the body first but that would probably let loose fairly quickly, but maybe not... |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Feb 24, 2023 8:53:55 GMT -5
I use THIS STUFF often; it's quite sticky and very thin. It comes off, but not necessarily cleanly. I wouldn't suggest using it in your situation if for no other reason than that It'll be a pain to set it in place correctly. If you're gonna do it I'd say only use small pieces at the problem areas. I was gonna suggest laying some blue tape down on the body first but that would probably let loose fairly quickly, but maybe not... Thanks, I'll give it a shot. Yeah, I'm thinking just along the problem areas and not so close to the edge that it'd be visible. Being leather I'm not overly concerned about it laying as flat as a regular pickguard but certainly more than it is now. StewMac sells 6x8 sheets specifically for acoustic guitar pickguards, I thought about trying that and just doing a perimeter tracing. But I didn't want to spend 2x the price of the item on shipping. 😐 |
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Feb 24, 2023 10:02:20 GMT -5
Leather pickguard? I'm a little confused about exactly what you're trying to do, but hide glue (including the liquid kind) works pretty well with leather. It won't work great with a finish, but it will work better than you expect. It shouldn't hurt the finish. Definitely no chemical/solvent kind of damage... I think the worst that would happen would be some staining, but the leather itself might do that on its own. I've heard of people using hide glue to hold leather pieces onto iron bench hold fasts (old timey work bench thing), so if it works on metal, it might be worth a shot on the finish.
The stuff for pickguards is good stuff, but I'm thinking it won't bite onto the leather because of how leather kinda sheds pieces sometimes.... kinda the same way tape pulls free of fabric with pieces of lint on it.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Feb 24, 2023 10:16:54 GMT -5
Leather pickguard? I'm a little confused about exactly what you're trying to do, but hide glue (including the liquid kind) works pretty well with leather. It won't work great with a finish, but it will work better than you expect. It shouldn't hurt the finish. Definitely no chemical/solvent kind of damage... I think the worst that would happen would be some staining, but the leather itself might do that on its own. I've heard of people using hide glue to hold leather pieces onto iron bench hold fasts (old timey work bench thing), so if it works on metal, it might be worth a shot on the finish. The stuff for pickguards is good stuff, but I'm thinking it won't bite onto the leather because of how leather kinda sheds pieces sometimes.... kinda the same way tape pulls free of fabric with pieces of lint on it. Hey Funky, the leather pickguard is just a compliment on my latest Tele project. Here's the gap on the bottom side. I added a 6th screw on the top side but that just creates 2 lifts in between. I suspect the same would happen on this side. I think it's likely the leather expanded after I installed it.  Front shot  |
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Post by hushnel on Feb 24, 2023 12:30:13 GMT -5
I would find a very thin stiff backing, like a laminate plastic, or carbon fiber. Attaché the leather to this backing with an industrial contact adhesive.
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Post by Pinetree on Feb 24, 2023 12:52:29 GMT -5
That's a great idea.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Feb 24, 2023 12:58:27 GMT -5
Sounds like a great idea, my only concern is it adding even more thickness to an already chunky piece of leather. Quick glance on Amazon for carbon fiber I see one thats 1 mm thick. Something to ponder.
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Post by Cal-Woody on Feb 24, 2023 13:04:19 GMT -5
You could use a thin sheet of aluminum and glue your pickguard to that and that would work, along with it helping to shield against RF interference. It would stay flat and if you slightly undercut it and steam the edges to curl down, it would be an invisible fix.
Just a thought...
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Post by Leftee on Feb 24, 2023 13:29:11 GMT -5
The thing about a two-sided tape is how permanent in *wouldn’t* prove to be. I think you’d be in the same situation sooner or later.
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Post by hushnel on Feb 24, 2023 14:13:03 GMT -5
Leather guys who have the tool can skive your leather to a thinner even thickness. A Tandy shop maybe, a saddle maker. I personally don’t have one wide enough. I have one for skiving belts.
I have thinner leather but I’m not sure it would have the same exact look as a nice piece of Vegetable tanned leather.
There are some counter top laminations that are super thin and very sturdy. The top side is slick for easy cleaning, this would go down to the guitar top the bottom side is made for holding contact cement and would be perfect for laminating to the flesh side of the leather.
Found online;
The typical thickness is 1.1mm and it's listed as Grade 10. This is the same grade Formica uses for its General Purpose Type Standard Backing Laminate, and it can help fill in when there's a lack of vertical- or horizontal-specific grade Formica on hand for the project.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Feb 24, 2023 15:43:07 GMT -5
The best stuff is the 3M adhesive film sold in sheets. Guitar makers use it to adhere plastic pickguards to acoustic guitar tops. Here's how: Peel one side of the paper backing. Lay it sticky-side up and press the leather onto it. Place it on on a cutting mat and use a very sharp X-Acto knife to trim off the excess around the perimeter. Take your time because neatness counts. Remember the neck pickup cutout too. Flip it face down. Use the point of the X-Acto to lift a corner of the paper backing and peel it off. Poke a little X through the film over each screw hole to make starting the screws easy. Place a toothpick in each screw hole in the body and carefully align the holes in the pickguard with the toothpicks. This helps get it perfect. Lower it into place and press it down. www.amazon.com/super-strong-double-sided-attaching-digitizers-9474-12x12-3pk/dp/B00D17IJBQ/ref=sr_1_2 |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Feb 24, 2023 16:52:50 GMT -5
Thanks for the link Peegoo, that was my initial intention looking at the Stewmac offering. But the size of their material falls short of full coverage. I already ordered some other thin 2 sided tape, I'll try to work the lifted areas first. If that doesn't hold I'll give your idea a shot. My concern about any adhesive is how well it interacts between leather and the shellac finish which isn't highly glossed/smooth.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Feb 24, 2023 17:45:48 GMT -5
Thanks for the link Peegoo, that was my initial intention looking at the Stewmac offering. But the size of their material falls short of full coverage. I already ordered some other thin 2 sided tape, I'll try to work the lifted areas first. If that doesn't hold I'll give your idea a shot. My concern about any adhesive is how well it interacts between leather and the shellac finish which isn't highly glossed/smooth. It will not harm a shellac finish. Read the product description on that link I sent; it works really well with hard leathers which is what you have there. If you're going to use tape, apply it to the leather and leave the paper backing on it. Lay successive strips of tape with the edge butted against the one already applied with no overlap. Cover the entire back of the leather with it, leaving a little overhanging the leather on the ends. When done, flip it over and trim off the wild ends of the tape. Flip it back over and peel off the paper backing. The reason I suggest doing the entire back and not just the lifting areas is to prevent the currently-flat portions of the leather from distorting in the future. This 3M tape and sheet film releases easily with the application of mild heat; most guitar repair folks use a salon blow dryer to slowly and evenly warm up the material. A heat gun (used for removing paint, etc.), is extremely risky. |
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 24, 2023 19:17:55 GMT -5
Thanks Geno.
It's great when I know the right approach to accomplish something.
Then someone has the knowledge and experience to make the process practical and bring it to reality.
I had been stewing over this since Larry posted it ... trying to think of a practical way to actually do it.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Feb 24, 2023 20:35:29 GMT -5
I gotta say the toothpick idea is brilliant.
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Post by Leftee on Feb 25, 2023 7:43:43 GMT -5
I keep a stash of round toothpicks at my bench. They come in so handy for everything from tiny dowels to glue applicators.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Feb 25, 2023 11:01:09 GMT -5
Looking again at the picture, I'm wondering if the leather is warping (for lack of a better word) or if it is expanding, and the screws are making it bunch up?
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Feb 25, 2023 12:12:40 GMT -5
Looking again at the picture, I'm wondering if the leather is warping (for lack of a better word) or if it is expanding, and the screws are making it bunch up? Yeah, that's a concern. I wonder if I should have let it acclimate longer before committing to drilling the screw holes. I'd hate to have to plug the holes and redrill. The pickguard was made by a guy in the New Orleans area so not a huge change in environments but being winter could have been subjected to different temps and humidity levels there, in transit and here. We'll see. My first venture into a non-traditional pickguard material. |
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Feb 25, 2023 12:46:55 GMT -5
Can the holes be elongated to allow for movement without looking bad?
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Feb 25, 2023 13:15:21 GMT -5
Can the holes be elongated to allow for movement without looking bad? I think the amount of expansion would require too much opening up. Before trying the adhesive I'm gonna see if a regular pickguard fits just to see if the screw holes aren't wonky. If they do line up then I'll try the adhesive and if it doesn't stay put I'll just put on a black pickguard. Or try Hushnel's idea of a rigid fiber backing. |
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Feb 25, 2023 15:01:43 GMT -5
Can the holes be elongated to allow for movement without looking bad? I think the amount of expansion would require too much opening up. Before trying the adhesive I'm gonna see if a regular pickguard fits just to see if the screw holes aren't wonky. If they do line up then I'll try the adhesive and if it doesn't stay put I'll just put on a black pickguard. Or try Hushnel's idea of a rigid fiber backing. There's also the further question if you were to fill/redrill the holes for where the guard lies now if the guard will stay put. In other words, does the piece of leather take time to settle in to a certain dimension, or is it always dimensionally unstable, maybe due to temperature and humidity? Besides being a casual consumer of belts and wallets, I really have no idea how it behaves. |
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Feb 25, 2023 16:09:18 GMT -5
Another possibility to stiffen the leather would be to coat the back with a thin layer of slow-set epoxy, flip it over onto some Saran Wrap, and place another piece of Saran over it, then a book, then something heavy like an Oprah. Or something like that.
The epoxy would partially absorb into the leather and set hard.
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Post by rdr on Feb 26, 2023 12:10:18 GMT -5
I purchased some extremely thin (like scotch tape) Scotch 3M double sided tape from Walmart in the stationary section. Very sticky.
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Post by hushnel on Mar 26, 2023 10:41:32 GMT -5
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Post by Leftee on Mar 26, 2023 14:16:44 GMT -5
Have you come to a solution Larry?
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Mar 26, 2023 16:30:36 GMT -5
Yeah, I did a perimeter double sticky back tape and added screws to the usual 8 hole locations. Its holding for now.
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