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Post by cedarchoper58 on Mar 26, 2023 16:54:41 GMT -5
i have been thinkiing of retiring my old Black Face pro reverb because of weight as i get older and buy a tone master and was wondering what you all think. I play a lot of SRV and classic rock like Trower Zepplin Hendrix and skynyrd. i have thought about the cream deluxe but am open to sugestions. Would i be sad or happy thanks
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Post by bluzcat on Mar 27, 2023 10:00:41 GMT -5
Super Reverb TM, with the attenuator should get you close.
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Mar 28, 2023 16:17:59 GMT -5
Super Reverb TM, with the attenuator should get you close. true but does not save any weight which is what im afteer. I get close with my 50LB pro reverb now |
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Post by Lesterstrat on Mar 29, 2023 15:28:04 GMT -5
Get an Fractal Audio Axe Effects and go straight into the board.
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Mar 29, 2023 16:13:41 GMT -5
Get an Fractal Audio Axe Effects and go straight into the board. i dont own a board and also a lot of venues we dont mic up amps |
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Post by Lesterstrat on Mar 29, 2023 16:47:11 GMT -5
Get an Fractal Audio Axe Effects and go straight into the board. i dont own a board and also a lot of venues we dont mic up amps Your band doesn't have a board? How do you run vocals? |
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Mar 29, 2023 17:35:10 GMT -5
i dont own a board and also a lot of venues we dont mic up amps Your band doesn't have a board? How do you run vocals? we do have a pa but if i mic mine then every one wants to be micked and it gets out of hand and a lot of hassle. I have blown speakers on my pa micing drums and bass so i dont mic. I also like the sound of a amp behind me. The speakers are part of the equation |
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Post by 6l6 on Apr 4, 2023 9:09:13 GMT -5
You would be remiss not to get yourself a ZT LUNCHBOX REVERB amp. Plenty of amp for most bar size public playing and it weighs less than 10 lbs. You read that right. I've sold all of my classic Fender tube amps and just go with my ZT. It's a killer amp w/100watts of power and bulletproof construction. www.ztamplifiers.com/lunchbox-line.html6 |
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Apr 5, 2023 16:48:00 GMT -5
You would be remiss not to get yourself a ZT LUNCHBOX REVERB amp. Plenty of amp for most bar size public playing and it weighs less than 10 lbs. You read that right. I've sold all of my classic Fender tube amps and just go with my ZT. It's a killer amp w/100watts of power and bulletproof construction. www.ztamplifiers.com/lunchbox-line.html6 that must be solid state right. So does it sound any thing like a tube amp |
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Post by reverendrob on Apr 5, 2023 20:52:44 GMT -5
You would be remiss not to get yourself a ZT LUNCHBOX REVERB amp. Plenty of amp for most bar size public playing and it weighs less than 10 lbs. You read that right. I've sold all of my classic Fender tube amps and just go with my ZT. It's a killer amp w/100watts of power and bulletproof construction. www.ztamplifiers.com/lunchbox-line.html6 that must be solid state right. So does it sound any thing like a tube amp Hate to break it to you but the ToneMaster amps are...100% solid state too! Basically good SS Fender has been around fo rages - since the Cyber-Twin and gets better every generation. The el-cheapo Boss Katana will more than do the job at gigging volumes for far less than a TM as well! |
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Post by mikeyd on Aug 5, 2023 6:27:58 GMT -5
I have a TM Deluxe Reverb and bought it after doing an extensive A/B test with the tube version. Nearly imperceptible differences, imho. Sounds, looks fantastic. Built in attenuator. Light. At a gig, zero people can tell the difference.
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Aug 6, 2023 11:53:54 GMT -5
I have a TM Deluxe Reverb and bought it after doing an extensive A/B test with the tube version. Nearly imperceptible differences, imho. Sounds, looks fantastic. Built in attenuator. Light. At a gig, zero people can tell the difference. which deluxe tm did you get thks |
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Post by LTB on Aug 25, 2023 12:01:04 GMT -5
I had a 1990 Fender Ultimate Chorus amp. The clean was decent but the overdriven sound was horrendous.
My new Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb tone is much better even with pedals. I was surprised how the tremolo sounded so close to the tube tremolo that was special on older Tube Fender amps.
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Post by reverendrob on Sept 1, 2023 2:08:31 GMT -5
I had a 1990 Fender Ultimate Chorus amp. The clean was decent but the overdriven sound was horrendous. My new Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb tone is much better even with pedals. I was surprised how the tremolo sounded so close to the tube tremolo that was special on older Tube Fender amps. Think the Ultimate Chorus was trying to one-up the awful gain sound on the Roland Jazz Chorus. It pretty much succeeded. And I'm not surprised, the verb tank and trem in the Mustang amps is stupid, stupid good. |
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chucksmi
Wholenote
Posts: 174
Formerly Known As: Offshore Angler elsewhere
Age: I saw Jerry Live
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Post by chucksmi on Sept 12, 2023 8:21:47 GMT -5
Ultimate Chorus, eeewwwwwww!
TM DR? We had a sub guitar player show up with one, Sounded OK when he was setting up but the thing buried itself into the mix when we started.
I'm becoming convinced more and more after years of club dates that the Princeton Reverb may be the perfect amp. Plenty loud, light enough and sounds great. It never gets the respect of it's DR cousin.
(But yeah, for bigger venues my stage amp is a prop, I'm going into the Fractal or PODxt HD Pro and using two Headrush 12" 2000W FRFR cabs for stage volume.)
YMMV and that's totally cool.
Chuck
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Post by LTB on Sept 13, 2023 19:07:10 GMT -5
I had a 1990 Fender Ultimate Chorus amp. The clean was decent but the overdriven sound was horrendous. My new Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb tone is much better even with pedals. I was surprised how the tremolo sounded so close to the tube tremolo that was special on older Tube Fender amps. Think the Ultimate Chorus was trying to one-up the awful gain sound on the Roland Jazz Chorus. It pretty much succeeded. And I'm not surprised, the verb tank and trem in the Mustang amps is stupid, stupid good. You are correct. I had a Roland Jazz Chorus and gain section was horrible. Same for the Ultimate Chorus. It was great for clean tones and Chorus good but second to Roland’s. I never used either for gain, only clean. Had I have been a heavy gain user it would have been gone a long time ago. I also had a Fender Mustang but didn’t bond with it and sold it to buy the Ultimate Chorus. I mainly play bass and what guitar I play is pretty much clean with some reverb/delay |
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Post by rickyguitar on Sept 13, 2023 20:11:26 GMT -5
I used a JC 120 for years 6 or 7 nites a week. A clean platform. Had an ultimate Chorus too. Same deal. Liked them fine.
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Post by reverendrob on Sept 16, 2023 8:07:20 GMT -5
I used a JC 120 for years 6 or 7 nites a week. A clean platform. Had an ultimate Chorus too. Same deal. Liked them fine. Yea, the JC's gain I used ONCE on a song in ...30 years. It took pedals well, and I've generally been a "get my gain from pedals" guy anyway. Think the only two amps I've ever really gone for amp gain out of (and then only some of the time) are my Marshall and "untamed monster HRD" on the super red channel everyone else hates. |
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Post by rickyguitar on Sept 16, 2023 8:37:10 GMT -5
I used a JC 120 for years 6 or 7 nites a week. A clean platform. Had an ultimate Chorus too. Same deal. Liked them fine. Yea, the JC's gain I used ONCE on a song in ...30 years. It took pedals well, and I've generally been a "get my gain from pedals" guy anyway. Think the only two amps I've ever really gone for amp gain out of (and then only some of the time) are my Marshall and "untamed monster HRD" on the super red channel everyone else hates. I have a 2004 HRD, slightly modded, that I use fir a clean platform. BB AC almost always on a little. With my G&L I always get compliments on the sound. |
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Post by jumpnblues on Sept 16, 2023 16:51:18 GMT -5
New forumite here. I was a die hard tube fanatic for 60+ years. I was a guy that wouldn't even discuss SS amps, let alone own one. Then about 2 years ago I was looking for a new Deluxe Reverb based amp. I looked at and auditioned several amps and was about to settle on a Victoria Club Deluxe. Beautiful sounding amps. I had owned 6 different Victoria amps.
Then, while at the dealer, I glanced over at 2 new Fender Tone Master amps...a Deluxe Reverb version and Twin Reverb version. If they only sounded like their vintage blackface counterparts? But I knew that was just not going to happen. Wrong! I couldn't believe my ears. They both sounded great with and without pedals! And the attenuators worked...fabulously! They both had mic/cab simulation, XLR balanced outputs, and the Deluxe Reverb and Twin Reverb versions weigh 23 lbs and 33 lbs, respectively. Each amp has great headroom. Very important to me as I'm a straight ahead jazz and jazz/blues player.
What's not to like? Well, I swallowed hard and purchased the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb. I was ready to spend up to $3000. That was 2 years ago and I'm still in love with my TM Deluxe Reverb. I can't say for sure but I may never own a tube amp again. My TM Deluxe Reverb may not necessarily sound "better" than any other amp but it sounds at least as good as anything I've owned or tried. And I've had some very nice amps, both vintage and boutique. You owe it to yourself to at least try a Fender TM amp. They sound especially superb at live gigs.
No relationship to Fender. Just a VERY satisfied customer.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Sept 16, 2023 17:14:18 GMT -5
Older solid states sounded better*, my own theory is that the signal chains were shorter with simpler circuits, and that might be a bigger deal on a natural sounding amp than the whole SS vs. tube thing. Once the '90s hit and everyone wanted tube again, SS got relegated to the econo price points, so the idea of a high quality SS amp turned into an oxymoron. The JC120 made a lot more sense once I started hearing a lot of older Japanese fusion/jazz stuff. The tone is tailored for that style, including that weird sounding distortion. It is more that it is made for something other than what any of us are trying to do than that SS fails at it. Watch videos of these players and you see that amp ALL OVER the place.
*edited to add that I'm not saying older SS amps sound better than the Tone Masters, I just mean broadly in the history of SS amplification, the Tone Masters being an interesting return to SS tech.
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Post by reverendrob on Sept 17, 2023 6:32:54 GMT -5
The JC was a damn good "starting point" - for the people who wanted to "plug in and get tweed", no way.
But for punchy clean that cut through a band mix, they do wonders.
Love my venerable mosnter.
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Post by LTB on Sept 17, 2023 16:21:12 GMT -5
I used a JC 120 for years 6 or 7 nites a week. A clean platform. Had an ultimate Chorus too. Same deal. Liked them fine. Had I gotten a JC120 I might have kept it. I had a JC 90 and for some stupid reason they used a different speaker than the others. A friends JC40 sounded better so must have been the speaker used in the JC90 was the issue. Hated it! |
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pdf64
Wholenote
Posts: 557
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Post by pdf64 on Sept 18, 2023 7:10:21 GMT -5
… broadly in the history of SS amplification, the Tone Masters being an interesting return to SS tech. I think of gear with wholly digital domain signal handling / processing and class D power amps as being a new category of technology. Obviously solid state technology is essential for it to be feasible, but I don’t see that they bear any relation to previous eras of analogue solid state designs. |
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Post by LTB on Sept 19, 2023 20:51:22 GMT -5
… broadly in the history of SS amplification, the Tone Masters being an interesting return to SS tech. I think of gear with wholly digital domain signal handling / processing and class D power amps as being a new category of technology. Obviously solid state technology is essential for it to be feasible, but I don’t see that they bear any relation to previous eras of analogue solid state designs. Agreed! |
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chucksmi
Wholenote
Posts: 174
Formerly Known As: Offshore Angler elsewhere
Age: I saw Jerry Live
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Post by chucksmi on Oct 2, 2023 10:37:09 GMT -5
Here's my issue with the ToneMaster DR.
First, anything with the word "tone" in its name - hack.
Second, it's way too expensive for what you get. I mean, for 2/3 the price you can pick up a used Fractal and a 2000W headrush cab which is awesome sounding and about 1000 times s more versatile and they are proven, reliable road warriors, and to my ears, sound a lot better than the TM. And now you have a Bassman, a Plexi, whatever that you can pull up to fit the song.
I've seen another opinion here, that's cool, but to my ears in a live situation (now twice) the TM just couldn't deliver the goods onstage. It lacked the cut and clarity I'm listening for out of a DR. If you like to use a ton of OD or other effects, then yeah, it's going to sound about like anything else but the clean just didn't pass the live test. I could never get them to compress and break up like the real deal or a Fractal or PODHD Pro. I guess they lacked that "tactility' if you will. If I hit it harder it got louder but not "bigger" like a *real* DR.
I suspect one of the goals in its development was a weight target and perhaps the speaker was, shall we say, compromised.
Maybe if I played one longer I could get there but I'm just a dumbass working guitar player.
Again, the PRRI seems to be a lot better than a Tonemaster DR.
My working experience with modeling is somewhere about 500 to 1000 Watts it becomes sublime and surpasses our old tube amps and mics. Yes, most people aren't using huge power amps or cabs, but try it, you'll like it. You can rattle their bones out there with the low end that requires all that power and keep the highs clean enough to make you cut through the mix.
As always, YMMV and I respect alternative viewpoints.
Chuck
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Post by LTB on Jan 16, 2024 6:05:02 GMT -5
I finally put the New Fender casters I bought for it 6-8 months ago and I put the WareHouse speakers I had bought and used in my previous Fender Amp and wow what a difference. This amp sounds more like the Twin Reverb I remember years ago. They are clean and chimey with sweet highs and nice clear mids and lows. I took the Celestion Neo speakers out. They were darker sounding and not as clean and chimey as these. Yes these are heavier but the swivel casters make it easy to move. Not as heavy as old Twin Reverb but instead of 33 lbs as stock it is about 45. wgsusa.com/collections/american-vintage/products/12-g12c-s-75-watts |
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Post by reverendrob on Jan 16, 2024 12:06:39 GMT -5
Yea, I suspect that speaker upgrades will help. I'm not a Celestion in a Fender fan (only tolerate them in Marshalls, and even there...not my preference!).
And agree on the get more wattage - it's a 'more than you need is the name of the game" with any SS stuff.
Fender's modelling isn't BAD, per se, but they're waaay upcharging on the TM amps to a point I just don't see ever shelling out for it.
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Post by LTB on Jan 16, 2024 18:40:24 GMT -5
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Post by mountie on Jan 18, 2024 7:47:51 GMT -5
My Tone Master Deluxe is expected to be delivered today. It was a good deal; store demo/rental model with full warranty. I will now sell the '69 SFSR to pay for it.
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