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Post by ninworks on May 9, 2023 13:07:32 GMT -5
Ever since I put the 1-3/4" nut, compound radius, 22 fret, Musikraft neck on my 73 Strat, I almost never play anything else. After playing Gibsons almost exclusively for my whole life I am really enjoying the Strat. It has a humbucker in the bridge position and Texas Specials everywhere else. Part of my enjoyment is having big 6110 monster frets on it. I wish I could do that neck mod to my Les Paul. It's what I played the most before upgrading the Strat.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on May 9, 2023 13:43:25 GMT -5
Glad you found the right neck. Strats are too good to have a neck you can't work with. Did you get the Gibson conversion scale or standard 25.5?
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Post by markfromhawaii on May 9, 2023 13:48:28 GMT -5
I have a Musikraft neck that I got several years ago for my ‘62 reissue Strat. I really ought to heve it installed. 🤣
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Post by Auf Kiltre on May 9, 2023 14:05:31 GMT -5
I'm a little concerned about my Musikraft neck. I adjusted my trussrod just yesterday and got it to spec, but is sure feels like there's no more tightening to be had.
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Post by ninworks on May 9, 2023 15:32:31 GMT -5
Glad you found the right neck. Strats are too good to have a neck you can't work with. Did you get the Gibson conversion scale or standard 25.5? I left it at 25.5. It's a tad longer than I would like but with my big fingers and hands I decided that since I am going to have to get used to the wider neck and string spacing the extra length would probably be a benefit once I got used to it. That seems to be playing out. One of these days I should play the Les Paul again to see if it feels strange yet after playing the Strat so much. What's odd is that my old SG never feels strange to me. I spent most of my formative years banging on that thing. I gigged with it for years. Every time I pick it up it just feels right. I almost never put it down from the time I was 17 until well into my late 30's even though I had other guitars.
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Post by ninworks on May 9, 2023 15:33:40 GMT -5
I'm a little concerned about my Musikraft neck. I adjusted my trussrod just yesterday and got it to spec, but is sure feels like there's no more tightening to be had. It might be worth a phone call to let them know. Maybe there's something they can do about it.
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Post by reverendrob on May 9, 2023 18:15:32 GMT -5
The stupid wide 2016 Les Paul HP did it for me in the LPs - it's wider neck but not wider string spacing, which solves an annoyance that's existed for me for 30 years - both in terms of neck width *AND* the "push the damn strings off the fretboard" problem.
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Post by LTB on May 9, 2023 21:25:17 GMT -5
Playing Bass has spoiled me so much so that when I tried playing my Gibson SG Standard after a year in it’s case it wasn’t going to happen so I sold it.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on May 10, 2023 20:33:18 GMT -5
I will happily dance on the grave of the "skinny necks make me play fast" trend.
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Post by ninworks on May 10, 2023 20:46:34 GMT -5
As for me, a skinny neck is a hinderance. I can play on a skinny neck but it limits what I can play due to the size of my hands and fingers. I like thin necks but need one like a football field in width. The only guitars I have ever played where I can finger chords the "correct" way are classicals but those kind of mess with me. Being accustomed to conventional electric guitar necks does not coincide with classical guitar fingerboards.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on May 10, 2023 21:31:55 GMT -5
I've seen two big problems.
The first is that people hear that skinny necks are "faster" and they accept that before taking the time to see what works for them. Since people tend to do a lot of guitar shopping online or in catalogs for a very long time, they rely on "advice" like this. Demoing guitars in a show room can be awkward, so they may not realize that a bigger departure from what they're used to might really work for them. At one of my early sales jobs, I grabbed a couple guitars set up the same and tried some finger exercises I was doing at the time on the different guitars to see if I actually played faster on one than the other. I found that I didn't. I also found that necks that felt too big ACTUALLY just had a weird carve, like a hard shoulder that should've been more carefully sanded or something.
Second, skinny necks will let you get away with bad ergonomics a bit longer, so there is a resistance to them, but if you can adapt, they are better in virtually every way, even for small hands. I got my first rude awakening in high school when I got a 5-string bass and had to break my habit of shovel gripping with my thumb over the top. If I tried playing more than 5-10 minutes that way, I had shooting pains up my arm. I eventually went on to a 6-string bass before going back down to 4, but kept that wisdom. Years later I decided to try learning classical. That cleaned up my technique a LOT. You need just as much finger strength, because you have to get the string firmly to the fret to get a clear note, while you can be a bit more sloppy with steel. The bigger neck and the changes needed to get a clean tone sort of went hand in hand - I had to hold it differently, even if I had mitts big enough for a classical to feel like a '70s Strat.
I'm glad to see more medium to large sized necks out there. For a long, long time if you wanted anything that wasn't skinny (I'm putting most '90s and '00s MIM and MIA Fenders in the skinny camp) you had to go Custom Shop or get some signature model. I'm also not hearing anyone complain that the new ES-335 is too chunky, though it is definitely bigger than the old ones. I have a 2005, and much prefer the new ones which are more of a medium profile. I'd be very tempted to upgrade if finances were different and I actually played more.
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Post by Mike the marksman on May 11, 2023 7:33:29 GMT -5
I have bigger hands and long fingers, and skinny necks just make my wrist and thumb cramp up when playing barre chords on the lower frets, like I have to strain my thumb to get a good grip on the chords. For the longest time I thought I was getting arthritis or tendonitis in my hand, until I borrowed a buddy's strat for awhile that has a thicker neck. When I played it I had no pain at all.
Skinny necks *may* be faster, if you have that ability in the first place, but I don't play fast enough for it to be any benefit.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on May 11, 2023 8:28:34 GMT -5
Aside from the comfort level thing the other issue I've had with skinny necks is stability. My Epi 335 Pro for example, I can practically flatten the strings on the fretboard by tugging on the headstock. Frequent trussrod adjustments. Every neck swap I've made to a chunkier neck has resulted in a more stable, better playing and more resonant instrument. While I'm moving away from the previously favored 1" baseball neck I still prefer one that is sizeable at the nut and tapers up to near 1".
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on May 11, 2023 10:29:28 GMT -5
Aside from the comfort level thing the other issue I've had with skinny necks is stability. My Epi 335 Pro for example, I can practically flatten the strings on the fretboard by tugging on the headstock. Frequent trussrod adjustments. Every neck swap I've made to a chunkier neck has resulted in a more stable, better playing and more resonant instrument. While I'm moving away from the previously favored 1" baseball neck I still prefer one that is sizeable at the nut and tapers up to near 1". I think that is the sweet spot, and if I was building instruments that is what I'd do. A lot of vintage instruments will feel similar to a skinny neck in the open position but get chunky faster. For most people, if they're playing past the 5th fret they're either doing barre chords or single note lines and their thumbs should shift to the back of the neck more. Open chord shapes often involve a little bit of shovel grip, so being a bit thinner up there can feel nice to a lot of people. I think this is why companies have been able to put out thicker necks without anyone really noticing, because it really does feel good to a lot of people. And, if you avoid the hard, poorly sanded edges and keep the open position more of a medium size, very, very few people will notice the extra girth. Gibson, PRS, and in some cases Fender have slowly moved towards this style. The fact that no one is making a stink about it is a definite sign that it is a sweet spot for a lot of people other than you and me, too.
That extra meat in that area also helps with stability and tone more than any other area. Truss rods tend to do most of their work in the early frets - different rod designs behave differently, but this is generally true. If you try to be skinny all the way up, you're guaranteed to have an S-curve, which is when it is permanently bowed forward up there, but you're back-bowing the truss rod in the early frets to try to compensate. Martin went through a skinny neck phase in the '90s and when I have to refret them I have to sand them a LOT to get it out. Most of the wood comes off around the 3rd/4th fret area and then again once it hits the heel transition. The 9th/10th/11th fret area is a giant dip.
As for narrow nut widths, as far as I can tell, it is either the thumb wrappers or the "I've played this thing for 40 years" people who like it. Maybe some others who learned chord voicings where they hit two strings with one finger tip and you can't do that with a wider nut. If I'm refretting a guitar and making a new nut, I usually don't feel like I have enough room to both have good spacing and not have the Es pulling off the fingerboard until I'm at 1 11/16"... anything smaller is a compromise and I have to try to intuit how the person plays to figure out which is more important - good spacing or avoiding the drop off.
I'm not 100% clear what the history of skinny necks really is... I know the myth came up that they were "faster", and I know manufacturer's bent to it quickly, but I don't know where it came from. Many were already getting on that band wagon by the late 60s, if not the early 60s. A lot of '60s Gibsons would be AMAZING guitars rivaling the '50s gibsons if they didn't have necks sanded down to toothpicks (or tune-o-matics on acoustics and other silly things of course). The only explanation I can think of is that entry level instruments of the time still didn't have truss rods and as such had giant necks, so it was probably an artificial quality marker. If you have a fancy guitar with a new-fangled truss rod, you can get it all kinds of thin and keep it in one piece! You probably didn't see truss rods consistently in guitars at every price point until.... 1980s? Probably starting in the '70s with "lawsuit" guitars, and then it took a bit of time for the dept store guitars to catch up, or be rendered obsolete by the expansion of Squier/Epiphone. (Martin is another matter, of course.) I'm sure if you were a 12 year old playing a giant Kay and then finally got yourself a skinny neck electric, you did feel like you were playing "faster".
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