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Post by Larry Madsen on Aug 26, 2023 23:16:07 GMT -5
This is my Father's violin. It has a bit of a story behind it ... family oriented. It was made a very long time ago. My Father had it back as early as 1928 and I'm not certain how long prior to that. He was born in 1906. IMG_5408 by Larry Madsen, on Flickr There is little to no monetary value to it, but I might be interested in restoring it to playable condition just as a functional keepsake from my Dad. Not sure how is the best way to dredge into this. I imagine an appraisal as it sits might be a good starting point, just to confirm what (I think) I already know. I fully expect the cost of whatever restoration it needs may go way beyond it's end value if we are talking strictly $$$ Any thoughts from the forum here about my thinking here. IMG_5426 - Copy by Larry Madsen, on Flickr IMG_5427 - Copy by Larry Madsen, on Flickr IMG_5428 by Larry Madsen, on Flickr
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Post by rdr on Aug 27, 2023 10:06:41 GMT -5
Why does it need restoration? Is it structurally deficient? If not, and it was mine, I would want to leave the naturally Dad-reliced finish alone.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Aug 27, 2023 12:16:23 GMT -5
Just talking about restoration to “playable” condition. Not a refinish of the wood.
It does have what appears to be a crack … which looks like might have been repaired in years gone by.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Aug 27, 2023 13:31:30 GMT -5
I'm way out of my normal expertise with bowed instruments....
... but, if it is at least that old and was decent enough to log that many hours, then you still have a traditional construction instrument with solid woods and probably hide glue construction. It might be a pretty cool instrument even if it isn't worth squat. I'd just make sure it is in the hands of someone who legitimately specializes in violin work since everything is probably done in the traditional way on this, and is very repairable. This is cleanly up their alley and a dream to work on, so I'm not sure there is much to worry about. A student model from later decades? Different story, even if the monetary value seems to be on par. They probably work on things where the bill exceeds the value often enough that they have a policy. You'll probably just have to prepay or leave a deposit.
If there is a bridge lying around, I'd stick one under those loose strings just to get an eyeball if it needs a neck reset. That'll give you an idea of whether you're talking a small chunk of change or a big chunk of change.
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Post by LesTele on Aug 28, 2023 13:31:01 GMT -5
I would concentrate on getting the fiddle back to a playable state - using a skilled violin repairer.
A new bridge costs very little. The chin rest appears to have disappeared- it clamps to the bottom left - very little money again.
My main concerns would be ensuring that the sound post was secure and that the gut/nylon securing the tailpiece was sound.
The pegs look in good condition and there isn’t much wear on the fingerboard.
Stick a set of Dominants on there and you’ll be fine.
The bows both look beyond saving - go for a budget carbon fibre with proper hair.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Aug 28, 2023 16:53:34 GMT -5
I would concentrate on getting the fiddle back to a playable state - using a skilled violin repairer. that is the track I am aiming for. I found a couple of violin repair shops not far from the house. My Brother (Ray) has possession of the violin at the moment, but Ray and I agree on getting back into playable condition. Ray currently lives here in Vegas, so I'll pick it up from him and get it to the shop. We will split the cost of the repairs. Ray was given possession of the violin (by our parents) many years ago. In talking to him a few days ago he couldn't even recall how it had ended up with him. I let him know that in reality it was given to his Wife (Dianne) of about 50 years. Dianne was a singer (not professionally per say) but had the musical inclination throughout her life and had played the violin in her younger days. It was actually given to Dianne. With the violin being essentially derelict, it sat in a closet just as it had at our family home for decades. Dianne died about 10 years ago and my brother has no personal interest in the violin. I proposed the idea of seeing the violin returned to true instrument status ... as opposed to little more than the "piece of junk with a story" that it has been for 90 years. There is quite a story behind the violin, my Father and my Grand Father. I'd probably derail the thread and bore the heck out of everyone if I got into that. In the end I hope to have it back in decent shape and in a shadowbox on display.
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Post by LesTele on Aug 29, 2023 12:49:01 GMT -5
Do you know any fiddle players?
Not a big fan of putting an instrument into a box and leaving it there.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Aug 29, 2023 13:13:51 GMT -5
Do you know any fiddle players? Not a big fan of putting an instrument into a box and leaving it there. No, I don't. I'm not sure when they would ever play it anyway. This violin is a family heirloom. It's not going anyplace other than in the family. Edited to add: It has been in it's case for about 90 years and left there.
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Post by Ricketi on Aug 29, 2023 14:41:55 GMT -5
I'm following this thread as I also have my fathers old fiddle that needs work to get back to playing condition.
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argo
Wholenote
Posts: 401
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Post by argo on Sept 17, 2023 14:29:33 GMT -5
Fascinating, I have my fathers Violin also. Probably from the mid to late 1920's and in the same condition also, Its a Stiener.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Sept 17, 2023 19:24:30 GMT -5
I’ve still not met up with my brother to pick it up and get it to a shop. 😐
It’s going to happen though. 👍🏻
I moved the rest of the story to “the letter” thread in Moe’s Tavern.
I had typed it here not taking into account I was still in the workshop forum 😜
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Post by LTB on Sept 21, 2023 16:56:27 GMT -5
I found the story very interesting and glad to see you wish to have it put into playable condition. Wish the best for your endeavors Larry
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Post by Larry Madsen on Nov 14, 2023 14:42:36 GMT -5
Update:
I finally picked up the violin from my brother.
This morning I took it to a reputable violin repair man. He is just a couple of miles away, easy access.
The violin had a delamination between the top and side and can be fixed. As we know, it needs a bridge. Tuners are good but need lube. Then it needs strings.
Cost to get the violin in shape $115.00
Then the bows. One is a cheap replacement and is warped, pretty much trash. The other is a better-quality bow and is repairable to working condition. It has a flaw (bit of missing wood) which will not impact its playability once the remainder of the issues are fixed.
Cost to repair the bow to working condition $125.00
Not bad at all.
The repair guy indicated neither bow was a good candidate for repair (based on cost and usual circumstances for a player), but for what we are doing I wanted one of the bows Dad had and used back in the day with the violin.
He should have it ready by the end of next week.
I mentioned that I assumed the repair cost is probably all of what the violin is worth. He told me these commonly sell for $1,000.00 to $1,200.00. I'm sure he is referring to one in pretty darn good shape.
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Post by Leftee on Nov 14, 2023 16:39:06 GMT -5
It would probably sell for that after he’s done with it… not that you’re selling.
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Post by LesTele on Nov 15, 2023 15:52:14 GMT -5
Sounds right to me.
The only problem I have is with the lube on the pegs. There’s normally no lube involved, just friction.
I’m glad it’s all coming together.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Nov 15, 2023 19:03:52 GMT -5
Right now they are very tight and squeaky. I don’t know what constitutes lubing them, so I guess I need to trust him. 😜
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 18, 2023 11:26:47 GMT -5
Sounds like a bargain on the labor costs.
The "lube" thing is probably just a semantic issue. No one should be spraying WD-40 on there, but some "peg dope" or chalk is pretty standard. Lets them glide enough to move, but maintains enough friction to stay put. Been a long time since I've done that sort of thing, but I remember the peg dope looking a bit like very dry chap stick.
Not surprised it is worth something - it isn't like it is made of boxwood painted to look like the right woods or made of plywood, it is the real deal and almost a hundred years old. I'll be curious how it sounds, too.
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Post by Leftee on Nov 18, 2023 12:57:04 GMT -5
We just had my wife’s violin at the luthier’s a couple weekend ago. This gentleman is, absolutely, a luthier in every sense. He builds instruments.
My wife’s violin needed a clean and tune up. New strings were due.
He found a split at a seam which he glued and clamped. Fwiw it stayed clamped for about 1.5 hours. A couple strings were down into the bridge. He prefers they ride higher so he tuned up the bridge, as well.
He researched her instrument while we were there. It’s German, made in ‘68. He said they’re fetching $4500 - $5k these days.
While we were there and we found him so knowledgeable, friendly and helpful, I asked him about ambient humidity in the house. He said that with these “new” instruments there’s no need to humidify in the winter. If it were a cello, yes. But not for “new” (his word) violins.
He spoke about what it could fetch once it’s time to sell it in maybe 20 years. I mentioned that it would never be sold. He said, “yes it will… at some point. This violin easily has 20 more owners in its future.”
Perspective can be sobering. 😎
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Post by Larry Madsen on Nov 24, 2023 19:01:32 GMT -5
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Post by rickyguitar on Nov 24, 2023 23:27:34 GMT -5
Beautiful
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Post by Leftee on Nov 25, 2023 9:29:43 GMT -5
She looks great!
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Post by LesTele on Nov 25, 2023 12:44:14 GMT -5
Looks great.
I mentioned a chin rest in an earlier post.
Not expensive but most fiddlers use one. It will cover the lighter left hand side - which is chin rest shaped!
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Post by Larry Madsen on Nov 25, 2023 13:16:21 GMT -5
I was assuming the lighter might be due to playing without the chin rest.
If that is the case I guess my intent was to keep it as it was for my Dad, 90 to100 years ago when he played it.
Some of this is truly guess-work.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Nov 25, 2023 13:22:13 GMT -5
I do intend to replace a missing piece of wood on the bow. To stabilize the finger hold.
I am also making a new leather handle for the case. To replace the original that was worn to the point of gone.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Nov 27, 2023 18:00:09 GMT -5
I have the new leather handle made and installed. I think it is fitting for the case, not too refined. After-all ... that case is easily over 100 years old. I'm just glad to have a way to easily pick the thing up IMG_5812 by Larry Madsen, on Flickr IMG_5813 by Larry Madsen, on Flickr
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Post by Larry Madsen on Nov 29, 2023 18:54:31 GMT -5
Well, this is my attempt at "fixing" the bow. A shot of the broken out wood: Bow repair broken wood by Larry Madsen, on Flickr Tension rod: Bow tension rod by Larry Madsen, on Flickr Obviously, the tension rod enters at the end and must be stationary where it enters at the end as well as out at the tip of the rod in order to keep the fingerhold from flexing upward ... like it does. Bow finger-hold lifting by Larry Madsen, on Flickr As it is there is no support for the rod at the rear or at the front.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Nov 29, 2023 19:20:59 GMT -5
What I did first is find a proper size drill bit and drilled/clean out the entry point and on into the area where the tip would be supported, creating a uniform size tunnel. I wanted to use the densest wood I have on hand ... that being maple. I formed a dowel that would fit snuggly into the opening where the tip of the rod would anchor. Cut it to length and pressed it into the opening with wood glue. A bit tough getting a decent PIC of the insert, but this is it. IMG_5820 by Larry Madsen, on Flickr then to get a maple insert to replace the missing wood in the channel. Since I need a properly align the hole down the length of the maple, I drilled it first. Took me about 4 times to get one right. Turns out it difficult to drill a parallel hole through a long piece of wood that is only about double the width of the hole being drilled. I then trimmed the wood insert to fit the channel and correctly align the hole for the rod. I felt I had a better chance of eventually getting it right without risking the bow itself by doing that way. Ended up with this: Bow repair wood insert top view by Larry Madsen, on Flickr Side view. Needs to be trimmed down flush with the bow surface: Bow repair wood insert side view by Larry Madsen, on Flickr Here it is back together with the new support for the rod: Looks a lot better. Maple insert trimmed and put back together. Bow finger hold after triming insert by Larry Madsen, on Flickr
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Post by rickyguitar on Nov 30, 2023 17:53:48 GMT -5
Wow, good job!
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Post by Larry Madsen on Nov 30, 2023 21:11:13 GMT -5
Thanks Ricky. Tonight I put another insert in the back end of the bow. It was hollow at the end there and the wood was splitting as well. I created a dowel, which again needed a hole drilled for the tension rod. Another contest of drill a hole then make the dowel fit in the end of the bow and also have the hole line up with the existing hole in the previous insert. I got it to happen. It is pressed in and glued. I have the bow reassembled for dry time until tomorrow. I discovered the eye in the tensioner mechanism can be screwed up deeper into the fingerhold and I have it seated down nicely on the bow now. Tomorrow I'll take some fine sandpaper and refine the insert a bit. I'll stain the visible maple insert to a dark brown, like the rest of the bow. Then I'll most likely just hit it with teak oil as a sealer to finish it up. Bow fingr hold seated down by Larry Madsen, on Flickr I'm now satisfied with the structural integrity of the back end of the bow.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Dec 1, 2023 19:52:04 GMT -5
Here is it shaped a bit better and stained brown. I'll let this sit until tomorrow, then hit it with Teak oil. I'll try to drive as much Teak oil as I can into the slight gaps there as filler. Bow insert stained by Larry Madsen, on Flickr
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