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Post by ninworks on Oct 28, 2023 9:14:27 GMT -5
I considering selling my BFTRRI because my gigging days in loud bands is over. I'm considering selling it and getting a Deluxe Reverb. Likely, a reissue. Is there anything I need to know about different ones that may, or may not, be desirable? I'd also like to know which speaker would be the one of choice to use with that amp. Is the stock one in the reissues any good? I'd rather buy an amp and then get an old, broken in speaker to put into it rather than have to break in a new one. I might even replace the speakers in the Twin before I sell it. I have a pair of 1964 Jensen C12N's, from an old Wurlitzer organ, in it that I got off Ebay many years ago. I should probably keep those.
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Post by rdr on Oct 30, 2023 19:38:12 GMT -5
Hi. I have a reissue DR. I have a limited edition with the Jensen P12Q Alnico speaker. It sounds great. Clean and bright up until about 3/5-4 on the volume. Nice full sounds. Reverb and trem up to Fender standards. I had a SF DR and sold it for some big bucks and bought some new stuff. These DRRIs are likely reliable if some things are tightened up. A Nashville amp tech, Psionic Audio, has some good videos pointing out simple reliability improvements to make. I did a couple of these to mine: 1. Cheap filter caps- tech points out these will have a short life. I didn't replace mine yet, but they are still located in the doghouse so simple to get to. 2. Loose hardware- I tightened all the pot mounting nuts (to keep ckt board solder connections from failing). Also input and output jack nuts, and Xfmr fasteners. None were what I'd call tight. Some provide grounds. 3. Bias ckt fusible resistor- Why? Jumped mine by piggybacking jump wire next to fuse. 4. Heater wiring- heater ckt wiring has two spade-type connectors that apparently are underrated for the heater current. Video shows melted insulated rubber boots and heating on board. Simple fix is to reroute the wires to a tube socket, there is sufficient wire length. I didn't do this as mine doesn't show any overheating, perhaps because I am using a Weber Copper Cap which forgoes about 1.5 amps heater current if I'm right. If I return to a tube rectifier, I'll likely do it. You can clip the bright cap in the effects channel if normally playing quietly and it's too bright for ya. I often just put my pedals thru the plain channel 'cause I have verb, echo, and mod on my board. The Boss Fender reverb pedal to me sounds 95% the same as the tank.
I bought mine used but cherry. That might be a good plan, get a good one cheap and tighten it up. Psionic guy opines that with these mods, should be reliable. I usually put a small fan blowing into the back of the amp for whatever amp I'm using, keeps em cool. Oh, if you get a new speaker from Weber, they will break them in for you gratis. I also sometimes use an attenuator; I use the inexpensive Bugera 100 watt. Sounds fine to me; maybe cut the treble up one notch. Something like the Weber Mass attenuators will get you into the more adjustable cork sniffery zone if desired. Don't know that I can describe different speakers for you. I do have an Eminence Red,White, and Blues in a cab that I sometimes use with the DR. An all around good speaker I think.
Good luck with your search!
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Post by reverendrob on Oct 30, 2023 23:29:29 GMT -5
I love 6L6 Fenders.
6V6 I'm just not enamored of.
I need 12" speakers, so I'll stick with Twins, HRDs, etc before I ever touch a DR
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Post by rdr on Oct 31, 2023 10:41:19 GMT -5
Yep I love 6L6 too. Keeping my 66 Bandmaster. But like my old PR and new DR too! DRs have 12" speakers.
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Post by Seldom Seen on Oct 31, 2023 12:55:13 GMT -5
My last DRRI sounded great after I converted to turret board, replaced the output xfmer, choke, and switched to a Celestion Gold speaker. I had a ‘65 DR for comparison, still do, and the reissue held its own with a total upgrade cost that was much less than a vintage DR. That said, neither sounded as open as my ‘66VR and other vintage 6L6 Fenders.
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Post by ninworks on Nov 1, 2023 6:13:11 GMT -5
Yeah the 6L6 stuff sounds great. My old Twin reissue is a monster. Big, fat, and clean. I prefer the clean sound of the Vox over it though when recording. The Vox just doesn't get as loud of a clean sound which is okay with me these days. I'm not gigging and all I ever do is RECORD guitars these days so I can get a great Fender-ish clean sound with the modeler. I don't need the Twin for that. It's the edge-of-breakup stuff I want the Deluxe for. The Vox does that very well and gets even grittier the harder it's pushed. To get the Twin to do that it needs to be in the next county or it's way too loud. Even then I have to drive the input really hard with a pedal or it won't break up as much. If I had a way to isolate it I would keep it. It's just hard to deal with the extreme volume.
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Post by Seldom Seen on Nov 1, 2023 11:38:47 GMT -5
Yeah the DR and PR are great for early breakup.
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chucksmi
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Post by chucksmi on Nov 1, 2023 15:57:01 GMT -5
I gig a DR quite a bit and really, they're a really loud amp. Anything over 3 on the volume and I get "the look."
Try a Princeton Reverb before you make the plunge. It's an extremely giggable amp that sounds absolutely great and has the 12" like the DR.
And, it's not too heavy either, and takes up very little space onstage.
When I need the oomph I switch over to my rack system and DI to the FOH and the DR is pretty much a stage prop.
Chuck
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Nov 1, 2023 17:19:10 GMT -5
Get a Attenuator or buy a 6L6 bassed tone master like a super reverb tone master. I use the setup daily gig or at home with no volume issues
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Post by ninworks on Nov 1, 2023 20:35:13 GMT -5
How well would an attenuator work with the 6L6 Twin? That might be a workable option.
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sirWheat
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For a better future, play Stevie Wonder for your children.
Posts: 319
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Post by sirWheat on Nov 2, 2023 5:36:55 GMT -5
Can't see why an attenuator wouldn't work though picking one seems like it could be a chore (haven't ever used one myself).
I had a silver face DR for many years, my first tube amp. "black-faced" before I bought it. Never loved it, never saw what all the fuss was about though I like them when other people play them. Honestly, my Blues Jr. has been a thousand times more useful.
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Post by Leftee on Nov 2, 2023 6:23:53 GMT -5
I’m the same way with Fender amps in general. I like them a lot more when other people play them.
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chucksmi
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Posts: 174
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Post by chucksmi on Nov 2, 2023 7:16:35 GMT -5
Attenuators rob a lot of the sound. The speaker breakup is as much of the whole picture as any other part of the rig. Once you put an attenuator on you might as well just plug into the Fractal because it's going to sound better than an attenuated amp (in my experience.)
Chuck
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Nov 2, 2023 10:16:49 GMT -5
Attenuators rob a lot of the sound. The speaker breakup is as much of the whole picture as any other part of the rig. Once you put an attenuator on you might as well just plug into the Fractal because it's going to sound better than an attenuated amp (in my experience.) Chuck maybe a little but my rig sounds amazing with the attenuator. He did say volume is a issue. The days of cranking amps in clubs is way over
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Nov 2, 2023 10:18:09 GMT -5
Can't see why an attenuator wouldn't work though picking one seems like it could be a chore (haven't ever used one myself). I had a silver face DR for many years, my first tube amp. "black-faced" before I bought it. Never loved it, never saw what all the fuss was about though I like them when other people play them. Honestly, my Blues Jr. has been a thousand times more useful. my ultimate Attenuator works great but like i said another great option is to buy a fender tone master they sound great and have a built in attenuator
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Post by reverendrob on Nov 2, 2023 18:57:14 GMT -5
How well would an attenuator work with the 6L6 Twin? That might be a workable option. Realistically with a 6L6 Twin you're not getting it into speaker distortion if that's your thing - it's not for me. But you're not getting a 6L6 Twin into speaker distortion without one either without a warehouse, so most folks never deal with it then either!
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Post by reverendrob on Nov 2, 2023 18:58:39 GMT -5
Attenuators rob a lot of the sound. The speaker breakup is as much of the whole picture as any other part of the rig. Once you put an attenuator on you might as well just plug into the Fractal because it's going to sound better than an attenuated amp (in my experience.) Chuck I'm not one for speaker distortion in the vast majority of cases. If I need that, even with a BIG room and no volume restrictions I'm probably going digital! I have both options on my table.
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pdf64
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Posts: 557
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Post by pdf64 on Nov 3, 2023 14:54:40 GMT -5
How well would an attenuator work with the 6L6 Twin? That might be a workable option. Realistically with a 6L6 Twin you're not getting it into speaker distortion if that's your thing - it's not for me. But you're not getting a 6L6 Twin into speaker distortion without one either without a warehouse, so most folks never deal with it then either! Just to note that (to my understanding) guitar type speakers add harmonics at very low power levels, eg well below 1W. It’s a characteristic that the ribbing is intended to bring out and keep controlled, ie controlled cone vibration modes. Rather than uncontrolled, aharmonic flubbing out that characterises plain, unribbed, lightweight cones. It’s a part of what makes typical guitar speakers to sound different, brighter, than other, more linear speaker types. Unfortunately this isn’t something I can prove with an internet link, it isn’t something that speaker manufacturers care to publish, and they’re the only bodies with the resources and interest to undertake the necessary testing.
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Post by Leftee on Nov 4, 2023 10:50:15 GMT -5
I don’t have empirical evidence to link, either. But speaker breakup sounds horrible, not musical.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 4, 2023 12:01:59 GMT -5
I have one, traded down from a Super Reverb because of size issues. I regret it a bit. For me they're hard to dial in, but it is likely entirely personal preference. Mine came with a C12K which is a perfectly fine speaker, but was too wompy for my tastes, and the highs too sharp. It defeated the whole purpose of having a small amp for me. The highs were a bit harsh, so I tried a Cannabis Rex thinking it would give a more woody/natural/breathy quality to it, and it is DEFINITELY not for me. I'll sell it (the speaker) eventually. The amp became ridiculously dark sounding, almost like the speaker was blown and I suddenly needed the treble all the way up. People out there love this speaker, but I can't see the appeal, except MAYBE as one half of a stereo rig or something.
I don't play it much, but if I was I'd probably put in a C12N with the "Steve Dallman" mod where the dustcap is (carefully) cut out and a piece of felt is glued in its place. I did that for an old Twin (original amp, reissue speakers) and loved it. I'm sure I'd love it with the right speaker. I haven't played around with the bright cap stuff, but would probably be messing with that as well. One of those old C12Ns that you have would probably sound amazing in it.
My tastes are just different, though. I like Super Reverbs a lot, and they don't seem that popular these days. My dream amp is non-existent... some sort of 2x10 that gets a bigger sound than a typical Vibrolux. Bigger cabinet/baffle, maybe? Dunno. I don't play enough these days for it to matter.
Also, if you don't need the space, maybe hold onto the Twin? Last I heard, resale on those was quite paltry, not sure if you'll get enough for it to justify offloading it.
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Post by Lesterstrat on Nov 6, 2023 10:34:57 GMT -5
If you’re looking for a smaller amp to replicate a Twin Reverb, the Deluxe Reverb isn’t it, IMO. The smaller transformer, different tubes, etc… just don’t add up to a Twin and I’ve owned numerous examples both.
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Post by Leftee on Nov 6, 2023 11:05:25 GMT -5
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Post by ninworks on Nov 6, 2023 12:11:10 GMT -5
I like the idea of the Quilter but 50 watts is a lot more than I really need or want. I want an amp to record with and I don't have anywhere to put a loud amp. I want to be able to push it into power amp saturation without shaking the pictures off the walls.
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Post by Leftee on Nov 6, 2023 12:24:56 GMT -5
The Quilter sounds excellent at low volumes. It's all baked into the design.
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chucksmi
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Posts: 174
Formerly Known As: Offshore Angler elsewhere
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Post by chucksmi on Nov 6, 2023 15:15:30 GMT -5
I hate to sound like a broken record, but Saturday night we played an out-of-towner at a bar. I brought my DR to travel light but honestly, I was wishing I had the Princeton Reverb. The DR is too loud for most bar gigs and takes up too much space. A PR or a Boogie MK1 would have been singing.
Chuck
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Nov 7, 2023 18:39:30 GMT -5
tone masteer super reverb is the answeer check out the you tube videos
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Post by zenland on Nov 7, 2023 21:32:35 GMT -5
You could order a Tone King Ironman II (Sweetwater?) and test it with your Twin Reverb. If it's not your cup of tea I'm pretty sure you could just send it back.
I bought one for my Marshall SV20C and it's worked quite well. The wife no longer complains lol!
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Post by ninworks on Nov 8, 2023 5:17:48 GMT -5
Which would be better. The Iron Man II or a UA Ox Box? I have zero experience using an attenuator.
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Nov 8, 2023 11:06:41 GMT -5
Which would be better. The Iron Man II or a UA Ox Box? I have zero experience using an attenuator. My UA has worked great for 20 years and has a footswitchable dual volumes which is super nice. you would need to get a 100 watt version for the twin
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Post by zenland on Nov 8, 2023 13:36:44 GMT -5
If you're just needing an attenuator, I think the Ironman II is one of the best. Here's a Sweetwater demo that shows the ins and outs. edit: Scroll down for the video. link
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