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Post by Lesterstrat on Apr 21, 2024 12:41:48 GMT -5
The pest control tech came earlier in the week and informed me he had a conceal carry and was carrying, and that state law requires him to inform the homeowner prior to entering their house. I must say, I was a bit surprised. It didn’t bother me as I have a few firearms and ammo, myself. But, I am a bit surprised his company, assuming they know, allow employees to carry. That’s a lot of liability, IMO.
Side note: It perplexes me that people here in Arkansas get a conceal carry licenses when this is an open carry state. No conceal carry is required to carry in any manner one chooses. You can carry in your car seat, glove box, on your hip, or in your underwear (that might hurt) if that’s how you roll.
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Post by Taildragger on Apr 21, 2024 12:47:35 GMT -5
Did he shoot any pests?
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Apr 21, 2024 14:58:57 GMT -5
Did he notify you upon arrival or make contact before showing up? I'd imagine he'd waste a trip with some who had an issue with it. Seems an odd practice. Here in Texas I just assume everyone is carrying and if it's concealed forcing someone to inform of a concealed weapon defeats the "concealed" aspect.
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Post by Lesterstrat on Apr 21, 2024 15:33:11 GMT -5
Did he notify you upon arrival or make contact before showing up? I'd imagine he'd waste a trip with some who had an issue with it. Seems an odd practice. Here in Texas I just assume everyone is carrying and if it's concealed forcing someone to inform of a concealed weapon defeats the "concealed" aspect. He made his announcement upon arrival. It is a rather odd practice.
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Post by Taildragger on Apr 21, 2024 15:59:01 GMT -5
"Good morning to you! BTW: Ah'm packin'.
Now...about those ants..."
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Post by Rick Knight on Apr 21, 2024 16:38:52 GMT -5
Side note: It perplexes me that people here in Arkansas get a conceal carry licenses when this is an open carry state. No conceal carry is required to carry in any manner one chooses. You can carry in your car seat, glove box, on your hip, or in your underwear (that might hurt) if that’s how you roll. Even if you live in an open carry or constitutional carry state, having a carry permit makes sense. Most states have reciprocity agreements to honor permits from at least some other states, allowing you to legally take your weapon to those states. AFAIK, the fact that you live in an open or constitutional carry state is irrelevant in another state. Carrying outside your state without a permit could put you in serious trouble.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Apr 21, 2024 16:42:04 GMT -5
Yeah, I just reapplied for my Texas permit despite constitutional carry here in Texas. I'm good through all states on my trips to Michigan but have to reroute around Illinois. 😐
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Post by Rick Knight on Apr 21, 2024 16:53:45 GMT -5
but have to reroute around Illinois Yeah, Illinois is a weird one. I grew up there, and my brothers still live there. When I lived in Missouri, it just seemed wrong to me that Missouri honored Illinois permits, but Illinois didn't honor Missouri permits. The recognition should go both ways or no way IMO.
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Post by Rick Knight on Apr 21, 2024 17:35:26 GMT -5
Here in Texas I just assume everyone is carrying I knew some police officers when I lived in Texas, before the State had carry permits. One told me that he assumed the presence of a loaded weapon in every vehicle he stopped. Whether he cared depended on the driver's behavior.
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Post by reverendrob on Apr 22, 2024 2:47:52 GMT -5
Here in Texas I just assume everyone is carrying I knew some police officers when I lived in Texas, before the State had carry permits. One told me that he assumed the presence of a loaded weapon in every vehicle he stopped. Whether he cared depended on the driver's behavior. The cops I knew in ID usually noted that if someone disclosed, they were a crackpot and they went on alert - not so much because of "criminal intent" but because..unpredictable was scarier to them than felon.
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argo
Wholenote
Posts: 402
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Post by argo on Apr 22, 2024 5:06:14 GMT -5
In Michigan, if you are involved in a traffic stop? You are required to disclose!!
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Post by Lesterstrat on Apr 22, 2024 7:13:11 GMT -5
In Michigan, if you are involved in a traffic stop? You are required to disclose!! But, does your bug man have to disclose? That’s the topic here.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Apr 22, 2024 7:39:00 GMT -5
From USA Usacarry,in Arkansas "ANY LICENSEE ENTERING A PRIVATE HOME SHALL NOTIFY THE OCCUPANT THAT THE LICENSEE IS CARRYING A CONCEALED HANDGUN."
Hmmmm.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Apr 22, 2024 10:17:20 GMT -5
From USA Usacarry,in Arkansas "ANY LICENSEE ENTERING A PRIVATE HOME SHALL NOTIFY THE OCCUPANT THAT THE LICENSEE IS CARRYING A CONCEALED HANDGUN." Hmmmm. I had not read that in my "quick" peek at AR law. There are plenty of situational scenarios where, even though possessing a firearm is generally legal, intricacies of the law can quickly make it illegal. Very important to know the detail of carry laws wherever you might travel. Were I live open carry is (and has pretty much always been) legal. If you conceal it in any way (in the absence of CCW), you are illegal. Even at the airport. Open carry in the public access areas is legal. Concealed, it is not legal, even if you have a CCW.
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Post by K4 on Apr 22, 2024 10:55:16 GMT -5
Concealed, it is not legal, even if you have a CCW. Is that State law? I wonder how it works if you pack a firearm in your checked luggage? Are you supposed to open carry it and only place it in your suitcase at the counter when you declare it? I remember on my original CCDW test it said it is OK to carry concealed in unsecured areas of an airport in ky. Ky, you are also supposed to inform a homeowner if you enter his home carrying.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Apr 22, 2024 11:10:35 GMT -5
I remember on my original CCDW test it said it is OK to carry concealed in unsecured areas of an airport in k I'm talking about "where I live", Airport formerly known as McCarran. I wonder how it works if you pack a firearm in your checked luggage? I have never had cause to transport a firearm on an airplane, however hundreds of thousands of Front Sight students did. There are provisions for transport. I know it includes limits on ammo.
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Post by reverendrob on Apr 23, 2024 0:25:02 GMT -5
Airport transport - unloaded in case with TSA lock, and you go to the desk and check it in. Ammo limits apply (and I forget the specifics) but the 'unloaded in case' is pretty much legal ANYWHERE in the US where the gun is legal to have. You have to be able to 'carry' it from place to place (moving, gunsmith, to the range) etc.
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argo
Wholenote
Posts: 402
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Post by argo on Apr 23, 2024 5:52:00 GMT -5
In Michigan, if you are involved in a traffic stop? You are required to disclose!! But, does your bug man have to disclose? That’s the topic here. Well from what I can find, here you are only required to disclose to police. But I think a service person carrying into someone's home is wrong in these times. I've had a permit for quite awhile and have done years of service work for cabinet companies and did not carry into a strangers home, out of respect for the home owner! and to avoid conflict. Just like private businesses' a home owner has the right to determine if you can bring a gun into your castle. There are many ways to secure a firearm in a vehicle, out of sight and easily accessible.
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Post by HeavyDuty on Apr 23, 2024 7:20:48 GMT -5
The guy was just complying with the law which is admirable. And I’m one of those people who thinks open carry is a poor idea in most cases - rural working outside and stopping in town, sure but not in suburban or urban areas.
Separate from OC I’ve lived in two states with so called “constitutional carry” (I hate that term) but I will always license, there are usual greater protections and reciprocity with other states when you do.
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Post by HeavyDuty on Apr 23, 2024 7:22:27 GMT -5
I knew some police officers when I lived in Texas, before the State had carry permits. One told me that he assumed the presence of a loaded weapon in every vehicle he stopped. Whether he cared depended on the driver's behavior. The cops I knew in ID usually noted that if someone disclosed, they were a crackpot and they went on alert - not so much because of "criminal intent" but because..unpredictable was scarier to them than felon. Here in TX, if law enforcement asks to see ID there is a statutory duty to inform.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Apr 23, 2024 7:36:07 GMT -5
I've been pulled over once by LE here in Texas. The moment he saw me also me pulling out my permit with my DL he waved it off and said "nah, I don't need to see that".
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Post by Larry Madsen on Apr 23, 2024 9:01:47 GMT -5
At my place of work we have a “no tolerance” policy for guests having firearms.
Bringing one on property is NOT illegal, but as a private business we have the option to forbid firearms.
Guest has 2 options:
#1 is turn it over to us and pick it up when they leave property.
#2 leave property with the firearm. Putting it in their car (on our property) is not an option.
If they have a problem with either of those completely legal options and they cause a fuss we will “trespass” them. At that point they are in violation of the “trespass” law and can be legally removed from our property and will be no longer welcome at our place of business in the future.
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Post by Leftee on Apr 23, 2024 9:06:36 GMT -5
Have you had to “trespass” many?
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Post by Larry Madsen on Apr 23, 2024 9:17:11 GMT -5
We trespass lots of people … usually “normal” guests are understanding and willing regarding the firearms preference.
If we do it over firearms it is something like hot-shot “body guards” for some relatively unknown (I think I’m famous) type person and they have not been approved to carry. Those are the ones that pitch a fit and get ejected.
In reality and comparatively speaking firearms is not the reason we trespass most people.
Edited to add: we do not approve very many outside entities to possess firearms. Sometimes at very high profile convention events we might and those people are not allowed to come to the casino/ hotel area of the property. As you might guess, LE is allowed. 😜
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Post by slacker 🐨 on Apr 23, 2024 11:45:55 GMT -5
It's been ages since I took my CC class, and I don't remember if there's a duty to inform a police officer if pulled over. They were very clear about how a traffic stop should be handled if pulled over.
The expected script goes as follows:
you: "Hello officer. I should inform you that I have a licence to carry a concealed weapon" officer: "Are you carrying a weapon now?" you: "Yes I am. How would you like to proceed?"
then follow the officer's instructions.
They said not to inform them that you're carrying as that could be construed as a threat.
I've only carried once in my life.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Apr 23, 2024 12:22:41 GMT -5
I have had the Officers first words to me at a stop be, "Is there a weapon in the car?"
For me, and I have only been pulled over a few times in 30 years, is to hand the Officer both my DL and CCW. They can take it from there. Usually it has been I don't need the CCW.
I do believe in Nevada if you have a CCW it shows up when they bring you up in the system before they even make contact with the driver.
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argo
Wholenote
Posts: 402
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Post by argo on Apr 23, 2024 14:32:26 GMT -5
I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
— Clint Eastwood
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Apr 23, 2024 14:59:41 GMT -5
My brother in Michigan got his concealed license well before I did and his take on a traffic stop is similar to Slacker above: Hands on wheel in plain sight, advise the officer and ask how he/she would like me to proceed.
The Texas code stipulates that you are required to present your license when asked for identification by a peace officer. So technically if you are stopped and the officer doesn't ask for your drivers license then I suppose you're not obligated to inform. But that is such a grey area and in my class was told that if a police officer ran your plates before approaching they probably already know your status. I'm not comfortable with a robotic recitation the moment I roll my window down, but if time permits I will have both licenses ready to present as they approach, then hands on the wheel. I let them take it from there. Just because the cop in my one experience was indifferent to it doesn't mean the next one will respond the same way.
As far as the matter in the OP I guess I can understand the aspect of being a homeowner and having someone come in for services and being armed. I wasn't licensed when I was a field tech and the company did stipulate no firearms. In fact the last version of my company had a field manager who went to do a Craigslist sale on his lunch hour. The person attempted to rob him and our manager shot and wounded the would-be robber. He was cleared of criminal charges but the company fired him anyway.
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chucksmi
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Formerly Known As: Offshore Angler elsewhere
Age: I saw Jerry Live
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Post by chucksmi on Apr 23, 2024 15:59:44 GMT -5
Very simple, If you are licensed to carry in a permit-required state and you are pulled over, hand the officer your license and permit at the same time. Tell the officer "As you can see I am licensed to carry and I am doing so at this time. How would you like to handle this?" and then STFU. A lot of cops are total a-holes, but they will still appreciate your professionalism. It will also reduce the chance of a misunderstanding that could have terrible consequences.
Chuck
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Post by LTB on Apr 23, 2024 19:21:01 GMT -5
I am keeping my License to Carry even though Texas is now even though Texas is a Constitutional Carry State now.
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