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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 12, 2021 18:00:39 GMT -5
A buddy at work (he and I both from Utah) mentioned this as we walked in from the parking structure this morning.
As I looked through articles on this, one noted that 16 States are now *Constitutional Carry*.
I had not thought it to be that many.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Feb 12, 2021 18:39:20 GMT -5
I didn't read the article, but...
If Utah becomes a constitutional carry state, it would mean they no longer issue CCW permits...which also means any they have issued become void.
Which also also means any states with which they previously had a reciprocity agreement no longer can honor the Utah CCW permit.
Okay, maybe it's in the article. Off to read!
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Feb 12, 2021 18:44:42 GMT -5
Okay, so it appears the state intends to continue the CCW permit program for citizens that want to carry in states that maintain a reciprocity agreement.
Makes sense to me.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 12, 2021 19:08:46 GMT -5
Okay, so it appears the state intends to continue the CCW permit program for citizens that want to carry in states that maintain a reciprocity agreement. I am just waiting for my New Nevada permit which I need in order to renew my Utah permit. I was caught in the COVID mess on renewing my Nevada. At the moment I have no valid Nevada permit, but do hold a presumably valid Utah permit. I'm not certain if my non-resident Utah permit is wholly dependent on my holding a valid Nevada permit. My Utah permit expires in March.
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Post by K4 on Feb 12, 2021 19:17:30 GMT -5
KY went constitutional carry, Ky also continues to issue permits for people who want to carry in other States and get instant approval for buying weapons. Having a KY permit means I get a background check every month.
When the police took the report when my car got hit while being parked my shirt raised high enough to un-conceal my firearm. When handing over my insurance papers and DL I also said, here is my permit. Officer said I don't care it is not needed anymore.
I said , yea I forgot.
Reminds me I got a renewal form last week....
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Post by Seldom Seen on Feb 12, 2021 19:20:53 GMT -5
Yep it's a foregone conclusion for constitutional carry in the Beehive state. I was going to post something about it a couple of days ago but spaced it. The arguments against were absurd. Like a three-hour class and the fee make a responsible gun owner, right?
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Post by Mfitz804 on Feb 12, 2021 19:29:37 GMT -5
There are two ways to discuss this topic, as a legal matter and as a political matter. The legal part is fine for this site. The political part is not. Please keep that in mind when posting. Thanks!!
- Fitz
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Post by NoSoapRadio on Feb 13, 2021 15:09:08 GMT -5
My gun club offers classes for the Utah license once or twice a year. It doesn't make much sense to me. Even with my MA license, the UT license still wouldn't allow me to legally drive from MA to the free states without relying on FOPA -- not something I'm willing to do.
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Post by HeavyDuty on Feb 13, 2021 20:09:20 GMT -5
My new home state of NH is constitutional carry (I hate that term) but I’ll be doing a license as soon as I can, I need the reciprocity. I also need to re-up my FL nonres, I let it lapse. And I’m going to give a serious look at getting a MA nonres since we are so close and are apt to run down on a regular basis - and her in laws are all in MA. Sadly I don’t think there is much I can do about CT or NY, let alone NJ.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Feb 13, 2021 21:25:25 GMT -5
My new home state of NH is constitutional carry (I hate that term) I hate the term too, it’s not really an accurate description of what it is.
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jtheissen
Wholenote
Montana lurker, mostly🎸
Posts: 203
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Post by jtheissen on Feb 14, 2021 10:36:24 GMT -5
Montana is next. Passed the state house and senate. Off to the new governor's desk. CCW holders will be allowed to carry in a few more places than the general populace. I have one.
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hilltop87
Wholenote
My Strat is my friend
Posts: 885
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Post by hilltop87 on Feb 14, 2021 10:42:34 GMT -5
Not to go off topic, but I never realized Utah was called "The Beehive State".
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BigBadJohn
Wholenote
I Lurk, therefore I am.
Posts: 222
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Post by BigBadJohn on Feb 14, 2021 15:01:27 GMT -5
Indiana is going to try again as well.
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Post by NoSoapRadio on Feb 14, 2021 15:50:17 GMT -5
My new home state of NH is constitutional carry (I hate that term) but I’ll be doing a license as soon as I can, I need the reciprocity. I keep a NH Non Resident license just for reciprocity in PA -- I used to have to go to Philly a couple times a year.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 14, 2021 17:48:12 GMT -5
I hate the term too, it’s not really an accurate description of what it is. Just out of curiosity, how would define it?
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Post by Seldom Seen on Feb 14, 2021 17:57:28 GMT -5
Not to go off topic, but I never realized Utah was called "The Beehive State". I never realized some of you (at least one) actually read my replies!
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 14, 2021 18:04:52 GMT -5
I never realized some of you (at least one) actually read my replies! I surely read it, but I've known that as my home State's nickname since I was wee boy barley old enough to understand things like that.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Feb 14, 2021 18:11:32 GMT -5
I hate the term too, it’s not really an accurate description of what it is. Just out of curiosity, how would define it? Carrying without a permit being required.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 14, 2021 18:14:26 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, how would define it? Carrying without a permit being required. Which many might argue to be in accordance with the American Constitution. Or Bill of Rights, to be a bit more specific.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Feb 14, 2021 18:19:52 GMT -5
Carrying without a permit being required. Which many would might argue to be in accordance with the American Constitution. They’d be wrong. The Constitution says nothing about permits. Also, the Supreme Court, created by the Constitution for purposes of interpreting the Constitution, has held that a State requiring a permit is NOT Unconstitutional. As such, one could argue that one carrying with a permit is also carrying in accordance with the American Constitution. Hence, calling permitless carrying “Constitutional carry” is a snappy little phrase, certainly easier on the tongue than “carrying without the requirement of a permit”, but in my opinion, it’s not accurate.
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Post by HeavyDuty on Feb 14, 2021 20:14:56 GMT -5
Which many would might argue to be in accordance with the American Constitution. They’d be wrong. The Constitution says nothing about permits. Also, the Supreme Court, created by the Constitution for purposes of interpreting the Constitution, has held that a State requiring a permit is NOT Unconstitutional. As such, one could argue that one carrying with a permit is also carrying in accordance with the American Constitution. Hence, calling permitless carrying “Constitutional carry” is a snappy little phrase, certainly easier on the tongue than “carrying without the requirement of a permit”, but in my opinion, it’s not accurate. Larry, I have to agree with this. I would argue that “permitless carry” is more accurate, but looks worse on a T-shirt.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 14, 2021 20:18:28 GMT -5
Maybe "uninfringed carry".
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Post by Mfitz804 on Feb 14, 2021 20:31:48 GMT -5
Just pointing out, I’m not taking a position on the right, just what it’s called.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 14, 2021 20:39:01 GMT -5
From a legal perspective I would say (as a non-legal mind) ... It amounts to this:
If you are can legally own it then how you carry it is non of "the law's" business.
If I am accurate on that, "uninfringed carry" might be about correct.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Feb 14, 2021 20:40:39 GMT -5
As a non-owner, the concept of being allowed to legally own a gun and not being allowed to carry it makes very little sense.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 14, 2021 20:46:39 GMT -5
the concept of being allowed to legally own a gun and not being allowed to carry it makes very little sense. Agreed on that 100%. In most states its all about "how" you can carry it, not so much "if" you can carry it. Memory tells me from when I lived in California between 1979 and 1989, the law allowed you to carry the thing, but you could not have a magazine it it. Meaning you could only carry a completely unloaded firearm without a permit to carry. It's possible I'm off a bit on some various details on that, but that's what memory is telling me. Edited to add: Memory also tells me that it could NOT be concealed in any way.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Feb 14, 2021 20:52:48 GMT -5
In NY, “carry” means concealed, there is no open carry. You either have a carry permit (and you carry concealed) or a residential permit, and the residential allows you to have a slew of guns but only in your home.
I get what they’re going for, letting people defend their home and family, but I guess they only want people to defend their family while they’re at home.
Only being allowed to carry it unloaded doesn’t make any sense.
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jtheissen
Wholenote
Montana lurker, mostly🎸
Posts: 203
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Post by jtheissen on Feb 14, 2021 20:54:33 GMT -5
Of course the bad guys do what they want with no concern for the current state law(s).
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Post by Mfitz804 on Feb 14, 2021 20:56:45 GMT -5
Of course the bad guys do what they want with no concern for the current state law(s). That’s what bad guys do, not limited to carrying a gun of course. That’s why they’re bad guys.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 14, 2021 20:57:02 GMT -5
Only being allowed to carry it unloaded doesn’t make any sense. Again agreed 100% Many States allow "open carry" to anyone who can legally own the firearm. Nevada among them. While I don't argue against the premise, I would argue there are many disadvantages to doing so.
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