|
Post by NoSoapRadio on Mar 26, 2022 16:49:44 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is suggesting that the gun dealer would in any way be liable for the consequences of someone misusing a gun or using it for nefarious purposes. Yeah, right. Lawyers for Remington recently agreed to a $73 million settlement to pay off a handful of Sandy Hook parents for the way they advertised the gun that a mental patient used used to shoot up a school. The fact that it was the shooter's mother who purchased the rifle and gave it to the monster she created was evidently ignored.
|
|
|
Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 26, 2022 16:52:08 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is suggesting that the gun dealer would in any way be liable for the consequences of someone misusing a gun or using it for nefarious purposes. Yeah, right. Lawyers for Remington recently agreed to a $73 million settlement to pay off a handful of Sandy Hook parents for the way they advertised the gun that a mental patient used used to shoot up a school. The fact that it was the shooter's mother who purchased the rifle and gave it to the monster she created was evidently ignored. And that’s relevant to what slacker said…how? All you did is take part of my quote to try to fit your agenda. Nobody was talking anything about any of that.
|
|
|
Post by NoSoapRadio on Mar 26, 2022 17:02:13 GMT -5
And that’s relevant to what slacker said…how? I'm referring only to your statement which I believe is not supported by facts.
|
|
|
Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 26, 2022 17:07:20 GMT -5
And that’s relevant to what slacker said…how? I'm referring only to your statement which I believe is not supported by facts. My statement was about what slacker was talking about, which has nothing to do with what you said. You’re misquoting me to support a different position. Not cool.
|
|
|
Post by NoSoapRadio on Mar 26, 2022 18:34:52 GMT -5
My statement was about what slacker was talking about, which has nothing to do with what you said. You’re misquoting me to support a different position. Not cool. I didn't misquote you, I quoted you precisely. You likely know better than any of us here, that if there is an implied expectation that a dealer must provide any kind of training associated with the sale of a firearm and something bad happens after the sale, the dealer is potentially exposed to liability. I respect your lawyer cred, I own a lot of guns and know the local laws inside and out, I ask that you respect mine. In the the real world, a gun dealer will size you up as soon as you walk in the door. If you are obnoxious and pretend you are a know it all they just won't wait on you. Their livelihood depends on their discretion to not sell to Aholes. On the other hand, if you come in and just start looking around, wait your turn and are respectful, the counter person will spend all the time necessary to answer your questions, recommend products based on your expressed needs, and go through every firearm to demonstrate and explain how they work. Living in MA, we don't have the demand to have a gun store on every corner -- as the media would have you believe. I have eight in a 50 mile radius of my home -- I've been to all of them (I don't count Bass Pro because they suck). They are pretty much all the same -- they are all serious, they expect their customers to be serious and they don't want anyone to get hurt. It's good business. In short, gun dealers are not the problem. Of course, if you buy your guns in the back room of a bodega in Roxbury things might be different. You’re misquoting me to support a different position. Not cool. My "different position" is defending the 2A -- guilty. And you aren't the first to say I'm "Not cool". Guilty again.
|
|
|
Post by slacker 🐨 on Mar 26, 2022 18:47:33 GMT -5
I was required to take driver's Ed and or a proficiency test to drive a car. Further, every vehicle I've purchased in the last 15 years has come with a comprehensive explanation on all is controls and features. And yet more people die from car accidents than guns. And every new gun sold in the US also comes with a comprehensive manual that covers operation and safety. Guns are pretty easy to operate effectively and safely. I can't accidentally kill someone a quarter mile away with a chainsaw. Really? That's an argument? How often in this country does someone accidentally get killed by gunshot from a quarter mile away? My guess is almost never. Feel free to provide some stats. An order of magnitude more people drive daily. Replace 1/4 mile with 15 feet. You know my point.
|
|
|
Post by slacker 🐨 on Mar 26, 2022 18:50:14 GMT -5
I'm referring only to your statement which I believe is not supported by facts. My statement was about what slacker was talking about, which has nothing to do with what you said. You’re misquoting me to support a different position. Not cool. He used the classic straw man argument. You wre talking about my suggestion. He took your statement to a whole different place and argued against it.
|
|
|
Post by slacker 🐨 on Mar 26, 2022 18:53:15 GMT -5
My statement was about what slacker was talking about, which has nothing to do with what you said. You’re misquoting me to support a different position. Not cool. I didn't misquote you, I quoted you precisely. You likely know better than any of us here, that if there is an implied expectation that a dealer must provide any kind of training associated with the sale of a firearm and something bad happens after the sale, the dealer is potentially exposed to liability. I respect your lawyer cred, I own a lot of guns and know the local laws inside and out, I ask that you respect mine. In the the real world, a gun dealer will size you up as soon as you walk in the door. If you are obnoxious and pretend you are a know it all they just won't wait on you. Their livelihood depends on their discretion to not sell to Aholes. On the other hand, if you come in and just start looking around, wait your turn and are respectful, the counter person will spend all the time necessary to answer your questions, recommend products based on your expressed needs, and go through every firearm to demonstrate and explain how they work. Living in MA, we don't have the demand to have a gun store on every corner -- as the media would have you believe. I have eight in a 50 mile radius of my home -- I've been to all of them (I don't count Bass Pro because they suck). They are pretty much all the same -- they are all serious, they expect their customers to be serious and they don't want anyone to get hurt. It's good business. In short, gun dealers are not the problem. Of course, if you buy your guns in the back room of a bodega in Roxbury things might be different. You’re misquoting me to support a different position. Not cool. My "different position" is defending the 2A -- guilty. And you aren't the first to say I'm "Not cool". Guilty again. Nobody in this thread said gun dealers were the problem. You and I are extremely close in our opinions on this. You are a bit too reactionary and tend to build strawmen and argue against them. That isn't productive at all.
|
|
|
Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 26, 2022 19:18:35 GMT -5
My statement was about what slacker was talking about, which has nothing to do with what you said. You’re misquoting me to support a different position. Not cool. He used the classic straw man argument. You wre talking about my suggestion. He took your statement to a whole different place and argued against it. Yup. If anything, it calls the veracity of his entire position into question when that’s what he does to defend it.
|
|
|
Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 26, 2022 19:21:30 GMT -5
My statement was about what slacker was talking about, which has nothing to do with what you said. You’re misquoting me to support a different position. Not cool. I didn't misquote you, I quoted you precisely. No, you took a quote about one thing and tried to use it to support a different argument. It would be like if I quoted you saying that you disagree, and me saying “well you’re wrong, pineapples are delicious” when nobody was talking about pineapples.
|
|
|
Post by K4 on Mar 26, 2022 20:24:02 GMT -5
I do see NSR's point about future liability, I also know winning an argument with Mike would need one to be a good trial attorney.
|
|
|
Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 26, 2022 20:40:10 GMT -5
I do see NSR's point about future liability, I also know winning an argument with Mike would need one to be a good trial attorney. The only “argument” is using my quote about liability of gun store owners if they were required to do safety lessons, saying “yeah right” as if I was wrong, and using a totally different lawsuit about a totally different issue as his supporting evidence. I did not appreciate my quote being used out of context in that manner. I don’t have any argument with the results of the lawsuit he was referring to being stupid. Regarding the other part, my wife will tell you that there’s generally no point in arguing with me lol.
|
|
|
Post by modbus on Mar 26, 2022 20:41:20 GMT -5
I beg to differ.
|
|
|
Post by K4 on Mar 26, 2022 20:51:32 GMT -5
Regarding the other part, my wife will tell you that there’s generally no point in arguing with me lol. I suppose I should have put an LOL after my statement. I'll bet your daughter is frustrated along with your wife. Maybe I should have used the word "debate". My sister is a lawyer and words matter, sucks when we debate each other because I use common language and she uses legal.
|
|
|
Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 26, 2022 20:59:56 GMT -5
Regarding the other part, my wife will tell you that there’s generally no point in arguing with me lol. I suppose I should have put an LOL after my statement. I'll bet your daughter is frustrated along with your wife. Maybe I should have used the word "debate". My sister is a lawyer and words matter, sucks when we debate each other because I use common language and she uses legal. My daughter just doesn’t bother. The thing she hates is my ability to tell when she is not being truthful. I can read her like a book. She didn’t believe me once so we played “two truths and a lie”, where you tell 3 things and, we’ll, you get it. She told 3 true stories; one was about her friend at school, and she changed the friend’s name but it was an otherwise true story. I looked right at her and said “Your friend’s name isn’t Joe” and she was so angry. I get told I argue like a lawyer in non-lawyer situations all the time. It used to bother me, but now I just figure it’s probably true because everyone says it, and also it usually means the other person is frustrated by it, kind of like you’re describing.
|
|
|
Post by K4 on Mar 26, 2022 21:29:04 GMT -5
My sister, the lawyer, made me meet her daughter's fiancee because she said I have the best BS detector she has ever seen.
I won't say what way it went but I was correct.
I have one daughter who will say 'it ain't me" even if caught on video.
|
|
|
Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 26, 2022 21:31:52 GMT -5
My sister, the lawyer, made me meet her daughter's fiancee because she said I have the best BS detector she has ever seen. I won't say what way it went but I was correct. I have one daughter who will say 'it ain't me" even if caught on video. Mine isn’t so bad, so far. More along the lines of “did you study”, “yes”, “no you didn’t, go study”.
|
|
|
Post by NoSoapRadio on Mar 28, 2022 12:12:42 GMT -5
The Strawman card -- don't leave home without it if you just want to end a conversation rather than have one.
It's been fun gents. Maybe we can try this again sometime.
|
|
|
Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 28, 2022 12:49:57 GMT -5
The Strawman card -- don't leave home without it if you just want to end a conversation rather than have one. It's been fun gents. Maybe we can try this again sometime. It’s exactly what you did. Nobody (else) has a problem having a conversation on this topic.
|
|
|
Post by LeftyMeister on Mar 28, 2022 13:09:50 GMT -5
I try very hard to focus on the truth rather than who is right or wrong. Ego makes that endeavor difficult for most of us, self included.
|
|
|
Post by NoSoapRadio on Mar 28, 2022 13:23:34 GMT -5
It’s exactly what you did. Nobody (else) has a problem having a conversation on this topic. That's your position -- not a fact. I propose that we start over -- with your permission, I'll start a new thread to discuss the topic of gun dealers having the responsibility ("oneness" was Slacker's term for it) for providing basic training for gun safety. I'll PM Slacker to clear the air and see if he wants to continue the discussion without the baggage from this thread.
|
|
|
Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 28, 2022 13:50:38 GMT -5
It’s exactly what you did. Nobody (else) has a problem having a conversation on this topic. That's your position -- not a fact. I propose that we start over -- with your permission, I'll start a new thread to discuss the topic of gun dealers having the responsibility ("oneness" was Slacker's term for it) for providing basic training for gun safety. I'll PM Slacker to clear the air and see if he wants to continue the discussion without the baggage from this thread. It is a fact, but that's fine. You don't need my permission to start threads. We’ll call this one done, then. Anyone looking to continue discussing 2A, please create a new thread.
|
|