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Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 29, 2022 14:11:04 GMT -5
I'm sure I would enjoy going. I've extended an invitation in the past -- it still stands. I suggest handguns because my club has an indoor range which is easier for me to watch whoever I bring -- and it's more comfortable for a new shooter than being on the outdoor range next to a guy shooting and AR10. We aren't allowed to have suppressors in MA -- even with ear pro, an AR or AK is damn loud. I appreciate the offer and should the stars ever align correctly, we’ll have fun. |
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Post by LeftyMeister on Mar 29, 2022 14:12:54 GMT -5
even with ear pro, an AR or AK is damn loud. I've always marveled at movies when there's a gunfight and no one is standing around afterward clutching their ears because of the pain. |
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Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 29, 2022 14:15:32 GMT -5
True. It was a generalization of an inanimate object that needs/requires knowledge and user skill to operate safely and responsibly. I always marvel over how poor a shot everyone is. |
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Post by NoSoapRadio on Mar 29, 2022 14:40:44 GMT -5
I always marvel over how poor a shot everyone is. With the price of ammo what it is -- even action heroes can't afford to practice much. |
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Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 29, 2022 14:42:05 GMT -5
I always marvel over how poor a shot everyone is. With price of ammo what it is -- even action heroes can't afford to practice much. But it has always been that way, even when it was much cheaper… |
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Post by NoSoapRadio on Mar 29, 2022 14:45:26 GMT -5
But it has always been that way, even when it was much cheaper… Well, every once in a while, Hollyweird doesn't do a great job of depicting reality. |
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Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 29, 2022 15:56:18 GMT -5
But it has always been that way, even when it was much cheaper… Well, every once in a while, Hollyweird doesn't do a great job of depicting reality. Very true. Which is why I don't think anyone should be surprised that gunfights are not portrayed accurately; very little is. If it was, the movie would probably be exceptionally boring. |
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Post by rickyguitar on Mar 29, 2022 16:16:36 GMT -5
even with ear pro, an AR or AK is damn loud. I've always marveled at movies when there's a gunfight and no one is standing around afterward clutching their ears because of the pain. Boy no kidding. They are loud enough outside. I suspect after an indoor firefight I suspect all there to say is "what? What"? |
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Post by slacker 🐨 on Mar 29, 2022 16:26:15 GMT -5
Hard to say this and know it won't be viewed as Political. Individual freedom at its best requires great individual responsibility. We humans are imperfect and widely scattered in our priorities and values. Those two realities generate a World that includes degrees of danger. There is really very little that can be done about that ... in a Free Society. Or so it seems to me. Yep. Many will trade away freedom for "safety" and "security" . |
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Post by WireDog on Mar 29, 2022 19:34:36 GMT -5
My only comment is that kids should be taught the significance of a bullet in the chamber of a firearm.
With a magazine removed, inexperienced people can easily assume the gun is not loaded, but still may have a bullet, out of view, in the chamber.
In military training during “inspection arms” and everyday operations even in a combat zone, professional soldiers are adamant about seeing a “cleared” weapon, exposing an empty chamber as the situation dictates. Soldiers actually have a formal drill that highlights presenting a visible empty chamber.
I think this core awareness would save the lives of a lot curious kids who learn the hard way when the first stumble across a loaded gun.
So, yes on mandatory firearms safety classes.
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Post by reverendrob on Mar 29, 2022 20:34:11 GMT -5
I'll chime in as a genuine, certified 4H youth handgun instructor - they're not even allowed NEAR a real firearm until they're safe (and WANT) to move past the airgun phase.
The instructor has ABSOLUTE veto power as well, as it is for their own safety. Teaching rifle and shotgun is relatively safe - a muzzle sweep can be knocked away, etc.
Handgun sweep means you get the shot if one goes off in you.
It all starts with teaching sight alignment (popsicle sticks and paper), then shooting with single shot air pistols at butcher paper - there's no target marked per se. IT's all about fundamentals and safety, and moves on and up from there on an incremental basis.
For what it's worth, no child who's been through the program has ever to our knowledge used a gun in a crime that injured anyone. That's starting at eight years old, mind you!
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Post by slacker 🐨 on Mar 29, 2022 20:45:10 GMT -5
My brother at age 12 (1963) was given a 12 guage full choke goose gun (shotgun) to go hunting with two adults at Lake Texoma. He was very responsible and good with it whereas I was 13 and didn't even know how to shoot one until I was 15. He passed away in 1970 and I got his shotgun after Dad passed away last May. It was clean except for some dust inside the barrel because the case had deteriorated. I cleaned and bought a nice case for it. However, concerning shooting rules in schools I believe Mike is right. While some parents would approve, even if it was most parents agreed with it there would be a few, even if only 2 or 3 disapproved the "The wheel that squealed the loudest got the most oil" I would add to it that the response would also differ based on region. Here in NYC, where gun ownership is relatively low, people would think you were absolutely nuts to suggest firearms training in schools. We would definitely not have 2-3 people disapproving here lol. I would assume that in places where the parents were formerly 12-15 year olds who received shotguns, the response would be quite different indeed. . Yep. My dad taught me gun safety when I was about 8. Shot a 22 revolver, 22 rifle and 12 G shotgun (under close supervision) at that age. I started going along pheasant hunting at 12, but carried a BB gun to prove my gun safety awareness. Wasnt allowed to carry a shotgun until I was 15, when I got one for Christmas. Yep, around here it wouldn't cause the uproar it would in some other places. I taught my kids at around 12 or so. My son and I target shoot together regularly. |
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Post by K4 on Mar 29, 2022 20:47:02 GMT -5
So, yes on mandatory firearms safety classes. Ok, so now what are these classes supposed to teach? Who is to pay for them? So far in the States that allow CC without training there is no real problems. Someone mentioned a scenario where a family member gets shot because the occupant of the home thinks they are an intruder. What training would stop this accident? Then where is the precedent? I mean what other individual right requires any prerequisites? According to Gun Violence Archive, there were 15,439 gun homicides and non-suicide-related gun deaths in 2019 and 19,365 in 2020.May 7, 2021 (they blame the increase on covid) Cars killed 42,060 people in 2020, up from 39,107 in 2019, according to a preliminary estimate from the National Safety Council (NSC), a nonprofit that focuses on eliminating preventable deaths.Sep 19, 2021 So where should we spend our money on training? There is a thread on people driving too fast for conditions on the first page of moes. |
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Post by slacker 🐨 on Mar 29, 2022 20:54:28 GMT -5
So, yes on mandatory firearms safety classes. Ok, so now what are these classes supposed to teach? Who is to pay for them? So far in the States that allow CC without training there is no real problems. Someone mentioned a scenario where a family member gets shot because the occupant of the home thinks they are an intruder. What training would stop this accident? Then where is the precedent? I mean what other individual right requires any prerequisites? According to Gun Violence Archive, there were 15,439 gun homicides and non-suicide-related gun deaths in 2019 and 19,365 in 2020.May 7, 2021 (they blame the increase on covid) Cars killed 42,060 people in 2020, up from 39,107 in 2019, according to a preliminary estimate from the National Safety Council (NSC), a nonprofit that focuses on eliminating preventable deaths.Sep 19, 2021 So where should we spend our money on training? There is a thread on people driving too fast for conditions on the first page of moes. Well, every gun safety training I've had has emphasized knowing your site line and, when shooting, your target. Literally 101 level training. Accidentally shoot a family member thinking their an intruder clearly violates that. |
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Post by K4 on Mar 30, 2022 6:03:22 GMT -5
Accidentally shoot a family member thinking their an intruder clearly violates that. There is no training that will prevent this,except for maybe military and police house clearing drills. So again, what are these classes supposed to teach? |
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Post by slacker 🐨 on Mar 30, 2022 6:43:04 GMT -5
Accidentally shoot a family member thinking their an intruder clearly violates that. There is no training that will prevent this,except for maybe military and police house clearing drills. So again, what are these classes supposed to teach? If you've learned not to shoot at an unknown target (something I was taught in gun safety and hunter safety), and you follow that rule, it would prevent that. |
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Post by K4 on Mar 30, 2022 7:03:25 GMT -5
If you've learned not to shoot at an unknown target (something I was taught in gun safety and hunter safety), and you follow that rule, it would prevent that. While I do tend to agree, 3 in the morning and you hear an intruder and no one is supposed to be in your home, mistakes can happen. On the other hand you can't fix stupid. |
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Post by Leftee on Mar 30, 2022 8:36:15 GMT -5
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Post by K4 on Mar 30, 2022 8:45:10 GMT -5
There is plenty of places that offer training, which one would you say should be required? "You" does not necessarily mean Leftee |
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Post by Leftee on Mar 30, 2022 8:54:49 GMT -5
Any of the basic/introductory would be my recommendation, as they fit the purchase.
Required by your own conscience as a responsible person.
If there are classes that are missing, it’s because there isn’t a market for them.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 30, 2022 10:10:49 GMT -5
"Pistol 101" seems like a good place to start. If a course were to be part of the process, that's what I had in mind.
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Post by Leftee on Mar 30, 2022 10:36:15 GMT -5
Note the cost.
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jtheissen
Wholenote
Montana lurker, mostly🎸
Posts: 202
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Post by jtheissen on Mar 30, 2022 10:51:15 GMT -5
Anyone carry liability insurance? I do.
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Post by NoSoapRadio on Mar 30, 2022 13:37:08 GMT -5
So far, it seems that most everyone here agrees that basic training is just part of the responsibility.
Are there any gun owners here who have not found a way to learn how to safely operate their firearm. Not necessarily formal training -- maybe you learned from a family member or like many of us, you're an autodidact and you've learned from a manual or even a youtube vid.
In other words, does anyone have a gun that you are not confident you can use safely because you are not able to find a resource to get the training?
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Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 30, 2022 14:37:19 GMT -5
So far, it seems that most everyone here agrees that basic training is just part of the responsibility. Are there any gun owners here who have not found a way to learn how to safely operate their firearm. Not necessarily formal training -- maybe you learned from a family member or like many of us, you're an autodidact and you've learned from a manual or even a youtube vid. In other words, does anyone have a gun that you are not confident you can use safely because you are not able to find a resource to get the training? I don't think anyone is suggesting that resources for training aren't available... |
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Post by NoSoapRadio on Mar 30, 2022 14:50:47 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is suggesting that resources for training aren't available... If the question is not asked, how will we know? If we agree that mandated training is not feasible, that training is readily available to those who want it, and an element of the population are not interested in getting training -- why are we having this conversation? |
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Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 30, 2022 14:54:35 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is suggesting that resources for training aren't available... If the question is not asked, how will we know? If we agree that mandated training is not feasible, that training is readily available to those who want it, and an element of the population are not interested in getting training -- why are we having this conversation? Because you felt like you needed to start a separate thread about it? |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Mar 30, 2022 15:10:10 GMT -5
My personal practices are/have been this;
Research the type of firearm that suits my purpose and comfort level.
Complete a reputable training class in handling, legalities and range proficiency test.
Consider caliber for ammunition availability, cost and purpose.
Learn tear down, cleaning and reassembly.
Periodic range time.
Firearm security/theft prevention practices and equipment.
Holsters and suitable apparel for CC.
When carrying concealed I do NOT allow anyone (other than my wife) know. I had one situation where a close family member discovered after I had to explain why I couldn't enter an establishment and their reaction was unexpected and borderline hysterical. If I'm within the law it's nobody's business.
I'll often ponder scenarios to consider how I would react. Case in point, years ago I was walking through my sleepy gated community and missed by 5 minutes being on the scene where an estranged boyfriend chased his former girlfriend to the front lawn and executed her. I hope to never be in that situation.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 30, 2022 15:23:51 GMT -5
I'll often ponder scenarios to consider how I would react. Case in point, years ago I was walking through my sleepy gated community and missed by 5 minutes being on the scene where an estranged boyfriend chased his former girlfriend to the front lawn and executed her. I hope to never be in that situation. I find this an interesting statement. It sounds as if you were glad you didn't have to respond, even though responding may have saved a life. Is that what you meant? |
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Post by K4 on Mar 30, 2022 15:30:21 GMT -5
I had one situation where a close family member discovered after I had to explain why I couldn't enter an establishment A nice thing about Ky is the no weapons signs have no authority. You can only be charged with trespass if your weapon is discovered and if you refuse to leave if asked. |
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