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Post by NoSoapRadio on Mar 28, 2022 14:42:30 GMT -5
Let's take another stab at this -- as always, the rules of the forum should be considered when offering a response.
I just want to have a conversation -- my views are as follows -- I respect yours as well.
We have the right to own firearms to defend ourselves, family, and country but we have the obligation to learn how to use them safely.
Guns aren't hard to operate -- we don't need or want any regulation to be involved in the process.
How can we make this happen?
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Post by Leftee on Mar 28, 2022 14:47:03 GMT -5
I changed the title of the thread. Yours was baiting.
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Post by modbus on Mar 28, 2022 14:47:49 GMT -5
My opinion, and it's just my opinion, is that any effort to mandate required training before operating a firearm can and will be eventually used to limit/eliminate access to said firearms.
So my answer to the original question is that I don't think you can, while maintaining the 2nd Amendment.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Mar 28, 2022 14:53:59 GMT -5
We have the right to own firearms to defend ourselves, family, and country but we have the obligation to learn how to use them safely.
Guns aren't hard to operate -- we don't need or want any regulation to be involved in the process. I agree however the obligation to learn and use safely overlaps with not needing/wanting any regulation, which is where the discussion usually get lost in the weeds.
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Post by NoSoapRadio on Mar 28, 2022 14:56:38 GMT -5
I changed the title of the thread. Yours was baiting. Thanks for your help.
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Post by NoSoapRadio on Mar 28, 2022 15:02:33 GMT -5
My opinion, and it's just my opinion, is that any effort to mandate required training before operating a firearm can and will be eventually used to limit/eliminate access to said firearms. I'm inclined to agree -- the purpose of this thread is to try to find a solution -- let's give that a shot.
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Post by modbus on Mar 28, 2022 15:13:52 GMT -5
Well then, perhaps pro 2nd organizations should offer free or low cost gun training classes. It might be a better use of their membership dues money than lobbying.
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Post by LeftyMeister on Mar 28, 2022 15:16:54 GMT -5
How can we make this happen? While I'm in full support of 2A, I don't see a way of responding to the OP without making it political.
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BigBadJohn
Wholenote
I Lurk, therefore I am.
Posts: 222
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Post by BigBadJohn on Mar 28, 2022 15:36:29 GMT -5
Like I posted in the other thread:
From a safety standpoint its not too hard. The four primary rules are: 1. Treat every gun as if it's loaded. 2. Only point a gun at something you intend to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire. 4. Know what your target is and what's beyond it.
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Post by NoSoapRadio on Mar 28, 2022 15:40:11 GMT -5
Well then, perhaps pro 2nd organizations should offer free or low cost gun training classes. It might be a better use of their membership dues money than lobbying. That's a great suggestion. I've belonged to a club for years - we offer a training class that satisfies the requirements to apply for the state of MA license -- which we want to avoid -- but it costs $125.
We have a membership meeting coming up in a couple weeks -- I'll submit a request to offer the class at no charge for those who don't need the certificate. It's a start.
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Post by NoSoapRadio on Mar 28, 2022 15:41:44 GMT -5
While I'm in full support of 2A, I don't see a way of responding to the OP without making it political. We're smart guys -- we can find a way around this.
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Post by K4 on Mar 28, 2022 15:44:53 GMT -5
While not free these are reasonable.
They used to have hunter safety courses in grade school, we should bring these back only have every student take it.
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Post by NoSoapRadio on Mar 28, 2022 15:46:12 GMT -5
Like I posted in the other thread: From a safety standpoint its not too hard. The four primary rules are: 1. Treat every gun as if it's loaded. 2. Only point a gun at something you intend to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire. 4. Know what your target is and what's beyond it. Yep -- if everyone learned and followed these rules no innocent person would get hurt. The trick is getting people who don't like/understand guns to learn this.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 28, 2022 15:51:40 GMT -5
While not free these are reasonable.
They used to have hunter safety courses in grade school, we should bring these back only have every student take it.
That would never go over well, especially amongst those who don’t want the training (for their children) because they don’t want to have guns at all. And while I’m sure some of the training could be accomplished otherwise, I imagine quite a resistance to guns being brought into schools for this type of training. Requiring a training course in schools would be mandating training for a right that some people do not wish to exercise, and some others would like to restrict or eliminate. And, in at least some instances, doing it through the State run school systems. It would never work.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 28, 2022 15:52:22 GMT -5
Like I posted in the other thread: From a safety standpoint its not too hard. The four primary rules are: 1. Treat every gun as if it's loaded. 2. Only point a gun at something you intend to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire. 4. Know what your target is and what's beyond it. Yep -- if everyone learned and followed these rules no innocent person would get hurt. The trick is getting people who don't like/understand guns to learn this. That’s a gigantic “if”.
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Post by Taildragger on Mar 28, 2022 15:58:12 GMT -5
One thing that seems to be sorely lacking for too many these days (as opposed to when I was a kid) is a home environment in which: •an appreciation and respect for the extremely destructive potential of firearms is taught •respect for the rights and opinions of all other people is taught •attempts at communication and verbal conflict resolution are taught as a means of not having to resort to physical violence unless and until all other avenues have failed I was born in 1949, so grew up during the 1950s and 1960s. My old man was a WWII combat vet, as were the dads of most of my friends. My dad was one of the few who didn't have any firearms in the house. Most had deer rifles, shotguns and/or sidearms. So far as I know,trigger locks hadn't yet been invented, at least I never saw one til I had reached adulthood. The above-mentioned firearms were technically easily-accessible to us kids, but we never touched them except with the permission and under the supervision of an adult. We all knew that to do otherwise would've brought on repercussions of the severest kind. We were taught, in no uncertain terms, that firearms were not toys and were extremely dangerous when not handled according to certain protocols. We were taught that every firearm should always be handled as if it was loaded and that they should never be pointed at anything we did not intend to destroy or deprive of life. We were taught that if we ever witnessed a friend handing a firearm in our presence in a careless way and without a supervising adult present, we should immediately leave the area and tell an adult what was going on.
When my brother and I expressed an interest in learning to shoot, my old man reiterated the gravity of responsibility that this would entail and told us that if we wanted to learn to shoot real guns, we'd have to get rid of all our toy guns and stop playing cowboys-and-Indians and war. He didn't want there to be any chance for "blurred lines" between the two activities.
There were two school gun clubs (one for boys, one for girls) at my junior high school that taught gun safety and marksmanship.
In contrast to the above, it seems like these days, all many kids are told about guns is:
•guns are evil
•only bad people want anything to do with guns or to even know anything about them
Worse still, some other kids are left with the impression that:
•having a gun makes you more of a "man" or a "tough guy"
•having a gun will help you to enforce your will on others
•just threatening someone with a gun isn't always an extremely dangerous and foolish thing to do
In short: to answer the OP's question, I think that education of both parents and children would be a good place to start. Given that guns are present in our society (and I have no problem with that) everybody has a responsibility to have a basic understanding of how they work and how to handle them safely, if only in order to be able to impart that knowledge to others and be able to think rationally about the subject. That used to be much more the case than it is now, at least in my experience.
As I said
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Post by K4 on Mar 28, 2022 16:00:14 GMT -5
Could make it elective and name it something like "firearms safety" The class wouldn't take more than an hour and would not need a real firearm. Most rural kids get taught by their Fathers or Grand Fathers. When I was a kid in Wi I needed a hunter safety certificate to get a hunting license.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 28, 2022 16:04:42 GMT -5
Could make it elective and name it something like "firearms safety" The class wouldn't take more than an hour and would not need a real firearm. Most rural kids get taught by their Fathers or Grand Fathers. When I was a kid in Wi I needed a hunter safety certificate to get a hunting license. You would have a better chance if it were elective. Do you still have a huge resistance from those opposed to even having anything relating to firearms in schools. That doesn’t seem like a viable solution. I mean imagine the argument, we know you’re opposed to guns, you’re in favor of gun control, we’re gonna knock that out of you by teaching kids in schools the right way to handle them.
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Post by K4 on Mar 28, 2022 16:07:41 GMT -5
That doesn’t seem like a viable solution. I suppose you are correct. I have met people who are triggered just by the mentioning of a gun.
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Post by modbus on Mar 28, 2022 16:09:09 GMT -5
I've never had any sort of formal firearms training, although I would like to. I was never in the miltary, and the only courses they have around here are hunter safety and CC, neither of which interest me -- I don't hunt, and I don't want the responsibility of carrying.
A general purpose course with no goal other than how to handle a firearm safely and legally would be right up my alley.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 28, 2022 16:13:04 GMT -5
I've never had any sort of formal firearms training, although I would like to. I was never in the miltary, and the only courses they have around here are hunter safety and CC, neither of which interest me -- I don't hunt, and I don't want the responsibility of carrying. A general purpose course with no goal other than how to handle a firearm safely and legally would be right up my alley. I don’t disagree with the concept, but you can’t put it in schools and make it compulsory.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 28, 2022 16:14:13 GMT -5
That doesn’t seem like a viable solution. I suppose you are correct. I have met people who are triggered just by the mentioning of a gun. Exactly right. Those are the people would be completely opposed to anything involving guns, Whether the actual equipment or just the concepts, being brought into schools. I’m
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Post by modbus on Mar 28, 2022 16:23:31 GMT -5
I've never had any sort of formal firearms training, although I would like to. I was never in the miltary, and the only courses they have around here are hunter safety and CC, neither of which interest me -- I don't hunt, and I don't want the responsibility of carrying. A general purpose course with no goal other than how to handle a firearm safely and legally would be right up my alley. I don’t disagree with the concept, but you can’t put it in schools and make it compulsory. I agree 100%, I don't think it should be forced on anyone. That's why I suggested private groups may want to offer some basic training to the general public.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 28, 2022 16:25:56 GMT -5
I don’t disagree with the concept, but you can’t put it in schools and make it compulsory. I agree 100%, I don't think it should be forced on anyone. That's why I suggested private groups may want to offer some basic training to the general public. Definitely agree with that.
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Post by rickyguitar on Mar 28, 2022 16:26:05 GMT -5
Like I posted in the other thread: From a safety standpoint its not too hard. The four primary rules are: 1. Treat every gun as if it's loaded. 2. Only point a gun at something you intend to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire. 4. Know what your target is and what's beyond it. These are fine as rules or talking points. I think repeated application is what makes it effective. When you have your hands on firearms repeatedly in a responsible atmosphere or setting it becomes second nature. I think that is very Important.
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Post by K4 on Mar 28, 2022 16:59:51 GMT -5
A general purpose course with no goal other than how to handle a firearm safely and legally would be right up my alley. That pretty much describes a hunter safety course. There is no hunting involved. Just how to safely handle a firearm.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Mar 28, 2022 17:06:10 GMT -5
4. Know what your target is and what's beyond it. I prefer to phrase that as: Know what is in line with your target. Out in society where a personal defense weapon would likely be used, one must also be aware of what might pass between you and your target.
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jtheissen
Wholenote
Montana lurker, mostly🎸
Posts: 202
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Post by jtheissen on Mar 28, 2022 17:28:41 GMT -5
Personal responsibility. A firearm is a tool, like a power mower, chainsaw, and of course an automobile. Learn how to operate them but not be MANDATED to do so.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Mar 28, 2022 17:35:02 GMT -5
Personal responsibility. A firearm is a tool, like a power mower, chainsaw, and of course an automobile. Learn how to operate them but not be MANDATED to do so. Automobile doesn’t fit your analogy, as you are mandated to learn how to drive one before receiving the necessary license.
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jtheissen
Wholenote
Montana lurker, mostly🎸
Posts: 202
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Post by jtheissen on Mar 28, 2022 17:41:40 GMT -5
True. It was a generalization of an inanimate object that needs/requires knowledge and user skill to operate safely and responsibly.
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